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Old 07-14-2001, 06:58 AM
Marshall Stanton's Avatar
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You bet!  In the current series of articles I'm preparing on the .444 Marlin, one of them features cast bullets and black powder (yes, substitutes too) both in the Micro-Groove and Ballard Barrel Guns.  The results are very interesting, and the application appears to be very practical from the data we're collecting.

Anyone with supporting data on this project, I'd appreciate their expertise and contributions!  We want this work to be as in-depth as possible.  Two heads are always better than one!

God Bless,

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Old 08-05-2001, 07:24 AM
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Dimensionally, the .444 case is similar to the .40-70 Ballard cartridge which fired a 330 grain lead bullet of .403 diameter to a muzzle velocity of 1,338 f.p.s.

It appears that the .444 Marlin R-P manufactured cartridge case has a capacity of about 70 grs. of GOEX FFG.  Using the Swiss black powder equivalent, the case would hold somewhat more by weight.  

Powder compression  of .350 -.400 and maybe more would be ok since factory .45-70  with 500 grain  bullets compress 70grs. of black powder by .370" in old button primer pocketed cases.

In an "Express" version similar to the .45-85-285, .40-82, and .45-90, I'll bet that a .444-70-200 would do 1500+ f.p.s.

Anxiously waiting your test results,


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Old 03-12-2002, 07:20 PM
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Did anything ever come out of this?  I'd like to use my custom-built .42-60 CF (um... *cough*... .444 Marlin) in side matches at CAS events.  I'm looking for a nice, easy-going load, say around 1100 FPS or so with 240-grain bullets (give or take a few grains, I guess).  I'd like to go with one of the substitutes if possible, and I'm considering the new Triple-Seven from Hodgdon.

If you get this, Marshall, please know that I put in a prayer for you and your health.

Hang in there.

"Out here, 'due process' is a bullet!" -- John Wayne, "The Green Berets"
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Old 03-13-2002, 08:21 AM
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Wouldn't that be a .43-60?!?!?!  Good name, hadn't thought of that.

Russ, I haven't tried it, but no reason you can't just scoop the case full and set a bullet - just basic black powder loading techniques for straight-walled cases.  Figure out how much powder will fill the case under the bullet plus oh a sixteenth or  eighth of an inch or so compression, and go from there.  Don't see any reason why it would not work.

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Old 03-13-2002, 09:08 AM
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In reply to the ".43-60" question, here is my gunsmith's reply. *(He built the rifle.)
It is a .42 because that is what it is: a .423 or .424 bore diameter. All blackpowder rounds were named for bore diameter; not bullet dia.

And it is NOT a .444; it varies from SAAMI specs in the bullet weight and the twist, which allows you to use 350 grain bullets which a .444 will not. I own the rights to the name, btw. *Anyone who wants to use it has to pay me.

Okay, so there you have it. *I KNEW he had a good reason for naming it a .42-60 CF -- I just couldn't remember what it was. *Shoots like a demon, though!

Oh... and I was just reminded, the ".45-70" is a ".45-70" because of the bore -- not because of the .458" bullets it uses.

"Out here, 'due process' is a bullet!" -- John Wayne, "The Green Berets"
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Old 04-15-2002, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Hello from Scotland

Marshall i have only ever fired a few black powder shots out of a trap door .45-70 350 grain bullet, but it was great fun and the recoil was ,well i didnt even notice !
This black powder caper sounds rather fun i can get the swiss powder , how do you think my 325 grain lee bullets would do with black powder ?

Come on Marshall you cant keep use waiting much longer surley ?

What are the basic "rules" with black power ? From what some say i get the impression that you "must" compress black powder ?

Im just starting out with the .444, but the black powder caper sounds like it could add a new dimension to shooting on the range.

Regards Englander
Best Regards from Across the pond.
Remember ~Britain is an Island it will never be part of Europe ! .22LR .30-30 .308 .444 Marlin
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Old 04-16-2002, 08:05 AM
Marshall Stanton's Avatar
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Not trying to keep anyone in suspense!

Been waiting for warmer weather to get some serious range and chrono work done.... wouldn't you know it, that it was snowing here this morning, up until about fifteen minutes ago! *It's cold and wet here once agian.

I'll be getting those last articles in the series on the triple-four done as soon as I get some range time!

Yes, I promise!

God Bless,


<!--EDIT|Marshall Stanton|April 16 2002,09:07-->
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