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  #1  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:09 AM
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Heavy Subsonic .452 Cast


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I am big into shooting and silencers. Recently got a silencer capable of handling my 460 s&w TC barrel. And supersonic is fun... but wanting to go heavy and slow to actually cut out the crack and make it very quiet. Looking to get MTN Molds to build me a mold for some 500-505 gr but kinda lost. I know the bullet is going to be long 1.2-1.5". Do I want a bunch of small lube grooves or fewer large grooves? Do I want base short or long (non gas checked)? Thanks...
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:18 AM
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Those bullets won't stabilize at those velocities without a very fast twist barrel. You'll have to switch barrels to do what you want to do...accurately.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:24 AM
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JBelk why wouldn't they stabilize?
I shoot 495gr subsonic out of my 1:24 45-70 with zero trouble. Always makes pretty round holes out to 200 (my may subsonic hunting distance). My calcs show a stability factor of 2.2 or greater for .453 505 gr out of my 1:20 TC barrel at 950 fps. Not concerned with stability long range only out to 100-200 to ensure clearing silencer baffles and flying straight.
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
JBelk why wouldn't they stabilize?
Because they're twice as long and slower than design specs.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:51 PM
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for the speed your talking about either will work with tumble lubing them although that lube may make quite a mess in that silencer .
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
Those bullets won't stabilize at those velocities without a very fast twist barrel. You'll have to switch barrels to do what you want to do...accurately.
I agree with this.

Before just shooting subsonic loads trough your can. Or any different load for that matter. You need to take some cardboard and shoot 10 or more rounds through it from very close range. As close as you can get, 3-5 yards is preferable. This way you can check to make sure your bullets are stabilizing perfect from the muzzle. If you see anything but perfect circular holes from your bullets passing through the cardboard DO NOT SHOOT them through your can. You WILL ruin your investment of time and money in that suppressor.

Most centerfire rifles are not meant to shoot both subsonic and supersonic loads. You'll most likely have to get a new barrel with a faster twist rate to accommodate subsonic loads. I noticed this with my .308 rifle when I wanted to toy with a box of subsonics I bought. Just for giggles as a .308 win subsonic is not really anything better than a .45 Auto. They were not stabilizing at all. They were a 220 odd grain subsonic load. Similar weight bullets will stabilize from my rifle when I shoot them at regular .308 win velocity.


Also running subsonic and/or non jacketed bullets through a suppressor will cause a good bit of lead build up. Most centerfire rifle suppressors are sealed for use with jacketed supersonic ammo. Using jacketed supersonic ammo a rifle can won't get dirty enough to clean. I've got several thousands of rounds through mine now and it's hardly got anything built up in it. A lot of guys using .300BLK subsonic have now figured out that buildup is a problem and are making user serviceable suppressors just for the .300blk cartridge. So if your suppressor is not user serviceable I would personally advise against shooting cast boolits of subsonic ammo through it.

Last edited by Trent12; 03-16-2017 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:57 PM
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Over in the Cowboy Action forum, a few of us have been playing with 265 gr. lead slugs in slower than 1 in 16 twists. At 25 yards, mine, are making round holes, but I can hear, ( electronic muffs ), every last one ricocheting off the gravel behind my target frame.
Yesterday, in our local paper, there was an account of a woman getting six years in prison for killing an old lady across her street, and parking lot. She popped off a 380 in order to suggest to a boyfriend that he leave her door step. This little pill went through the old lady's front window, striking her in her chest, and killing her. The cops were called for the shot fired, but left things be. A day or so later, someone checked in on the elderly woman and found her laying dead on her floor in front of her street facing window. When they dug out the 380 bullet, it was game over. The P.O.'d woman shooter plead guilty. I'm going to have to shoot my 1 in 30 twist converter revolver with my heaviest slugs, at multiple milk jugs just to see if my bullets tumble and deflect. The atmosphere doesn't deflect them, until they crease through some gravel. FWIW, I moved my targets out to fifty yards because of not knowing where my bullets were ending up. I still don't, but now I don't have to hear them bi#^$h, cry, and whine about it. These slugs are about as long as I can work through the short cylinder of my 1858 Remmie C & B, converter revolver. I realize that the O.P. is trying to use a lot heavier ones. But getting them there is only solving half the problem. What they do when they arrive, is where the rubber meets the road.

edit; I found 200 of Bill Benny's hollow based 265 gr. Webley slugs, but they are so long, that they only work in the 45 Cowboy Special cases. My next set will be with 45 S&W Schofield brass, so I'm ordering a quickie 100, of Bill's 270 gr. slugs. BearTooth is still about 14 weeks out on my heavy weight Keith's order. I'll do some penetration testing with both of the Cowboy and Schofield brass cases. My new bottle of Unique should hopefully, solve the airspace problem of those Webleys' hollow bases. With my tight .451" barrel, I don't need these hollow bases to "bump up". And I resize 452's down to .451, in a push through Lee sizing die, in my press. So it looks like I'll have to take some black electricians tape along with a funnel and dipper, to refill my terminal effects targets with creek water.

edit 2; I realize that this O.P. wants to shoot much longer bullets. I suggest that he figure out a way to have two bullet halves separate outside the muzzle, creating two shorter ( stabilized? ) slugs. Colt Industries patented a three bullet pack, two with slanted bases, which would do this. But they were all contained inside the brass cartridge case. But Colt's idea was to make a force multiplier, in that three balls hit nine times as hard as a single one. These were really squat little pills. The Colt Industries patent application will have all of the prior art included, if the O.P. wants to go this far down the rabbit hole.
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Last edited by carpooler; 03-19-2017 at 11:07 AM. Reason: New Testing ideas
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