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  #21  
Old 04-06-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
Blackhawk said,


That IS true of a "New Model" but not of the old original, three screw Blackhawks.
I carry 6 in mine, but I am tougher than most about safety and I didn't carry in the bush where you could get into trouble with one.
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  #22  
Old 04-08-2017, 05:59 AM
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AFAIK, all of the Italian made SA clones are being made exactly as the original Colt design so I load with 5. The Ruger transfer bar revolvers allow for 6.

The original design for the SA has the firing pin resting on the primer of the cartridge in-line with the bore and Mike Venturino, noted western gun writer and CAS member has demonstrated that a blow to the hammer can fire that cartridge. There is a safety notch (first click) on the hammer of the original design meant to retract the firing pin from contacting the cartridge primer but it's rather fragile and could be broken should the revolver be dropped on it's hammer allowing an accidental discharge. The safety notch is likely intact on most original design SA clone revolvers but may be broken in the case of the older original revolvers so loading 5 is added insurance against an accidental discharge.
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:21 PM
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I believe many of the newer Italian single actions revolvers made by Beretta, Piatta and Uberti offer revolvers with transfer bar safeties.
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2017, 04:55 AM
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I have two Uberti's, the older 45 (21yrs old) has the hammer block safety.

The newer 45 has the hammer block and the Swiss safety. The Swiss safety is where the base pin can be moved
back to block the hammer from falling.

I'll load six with either gun.
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:06 PM
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Super Safety Notch.
CAS ruled legal a five shot cylinder with a dummy chamber. This has two good features.
1. Locking notches are between chambers
2. The dummy chamber works as a super safety notch. So you locate the dummy under the hammer and load five in a row, letting the hammer back down into the dummy chamber.

edit; The Colt Replicas designed after the Dragoons only have room for five 45 Colt Chambers in their cylinders. So this solves the five shot stages in the CAS competitions, plus it gives you a secure safety in a holster. My 1858 Remmie replica has six safety notches in its percussion cylinder, but the Taylor's six shot converter's six farrows and firing pins take up all the room in the backing plate. There's no designed in safety notch in the hammer, either. So the hammer always rides directly on one firing pin. This means that except at the bench, only five rounds can ever be loaded.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, because the backing plate has to be affixed, while the cylinder is outside the frame, there's no way, other than looking at the locating pin's hole, to see where the empty chamber is, when you install the cylinder. YOU cannot do this by touch in the dark. YOU have to be able to see that pin hole in daylight.

Last edited by carpooler; 04-19-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:21 PM
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I load 5 in my Colts and other revolvers unless I have a purpose
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  #27  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:36 PM
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The instruction manual that came with my 1970 three screw Blackhawk said to load 5 and carry on an empty chamber.
I generally do this unless I'm expecting trouble , the two legged bumping in the night kind, then I load all the holes.
Gary
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2017, 03:40 AM
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Yes, load 6 in the non transfer bar sixguns if they are going to be in your hand or on the range table.
If the revolver is going to be carried in a holster, pointing down your leg, and towards your foot, load only 5 with an empty chamber under the hammer, that is, if you like your leg and foot.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:37 PM
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sandog; Usually the fully loaded six gun gets out of it's holster, falls, and the hammer strikes something on the ground. This means that the A.D. round is coming back up at you, or someone standing next to you. I think it was the fast draw crowd, who used wax bullets, in order to save their toes.

I have an AMT 45DAO Backup. There's always a very small, but present, chance that if it fell out of it's holster, a pointy rock might touch off a round. AMT offered to put in a trigger safety, to prevent this, but the guy at their service desk, said that the extra parts, were more of a hassle than leaving it alone. He didn't have the extra safety put into his personal 45 DAO Backkup.

I've met and spoken with a fellow, who did get a 44 Mag. round, fired back at him, when his Single action hit the ground, as he opened a wire gate. That bullet went in his calf, and came out at the top of his shoulder.

He only hobbles around, these days. He can ride in a Pickup on paved roads, but not on rough gravel, or rocky ones. He suffered really terrible, and permanent, nerve damage, from that 44 Rem. Mag. bullet. It left him with a couple of small white scars, but inside, it's another story.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:36 PM
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If it falls, and something strikes the hammer, and there is an empty chamber under the hammer, there won't be an AD.
There is also the possibility, that brush could pull back the hammer and move the cylinder to a loaded chamber.
Having a thong over the hammer, or a strap with snap will prevent both of those from happening.
If the fellow that had the AD with the .44 Mag, had a retention device, his revolver wouldn't have just "fallen out" when he was opening the gate. And if he had loaded 5 instead of six, there would have not been an AD from the sixgun hitting the ground.
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:37 AM
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Sandhog; I spoke with him while answering an ad for a late Indian Motorcycle.( 500 cc, Enfield Single ). He didn't elaborate, beyond explaining the aftermath. But he said that he got out of a pickup and opened a simple barbed wire gate, on the side of a hill. So not much of any dirt in that primitive ranch road. The wire could have coiled around his Single Action and cocked the hammer before it hit the ground.

Whatever else, the wire did lift the gun out of the holster, and when it hit the rocky ground, it went off, nearly killing him. He was riding shotgun, so the driver scooped him up, and made a run to the hospital.

Other than using a full flap holster, like the old U.S. Army's cavalry, or maybe the German's Walther P-38 issued one, a free coiling length of barb wire has a mind of it's own.

In Idaho, IIRC, it's legal for one to pack a loaded firearm in a vehicle, but the hammer should be out of battery. In an auto, you have to rack the slide, but unless you have a hammerless DAO revolver, anything is possible, unless the pistol has to have the trigger pulled to raise a transfer bar safety, even in a striker fired automatic.

So, all anyone knows for sure, is that there was a live round under the hammer as the big 44 Magnum hit the rocky ground. And this happened years before transfer bar safeties were even widely available. Personally, I think that the bob wire, had to cock the revolver in order to pull it out of his holster, in the first place, unless he had put rubber grips on it to help with the recoil. Quien Sabe!
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:48 AM
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Carpooler--- you don't have to have barbed wire pulling and cocking guns to figure out that deal. To open a wire gate you have to lift the post from the bottom wire loop. That's probably how the gun got out of the holster. All it takes is about 18 inches of fall to break the brittle tip off the trigger in the half cock notch to fire the gun.
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:37 PM
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JBelk; Where that man lives, it's in a canyon with basalt cliffs. I don't know how far away from his front door that happened, but there's a lot of rocky road beds where wire fences corral cattle, and a few horses. I'm more afraid of wire coiling as one of those simple gates are pulled about half way back across the road bed. There's no hinges, so you have to drag the wire and posts, out of the way, for the vehicle to pass on through.

I don't want to accuse him of breaking our law, by carrying six loaded rounds, in his truck. He just may have had the chamber under the hammer, empty. If the coiled wire did pull the hammer back far enough, it may have cocked, and then the trigger's inertia touched it off, when it hit the ground. P.M. me and I'll get back to you with the real location, so you might contact their local Sheriff's office. If that hammer notch broke, it stayed broken.

A broken trigger notch, plus five live, and one fired, cartridges, would have been pretty obvious, to the investigators.

Last edited by carpooler; 05-17-2017 at 04:42 PM. Reason: Obvious solutions
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:42 PM
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Yes, once broken the trigger stays broken.

I think you're forgetting the 'finger spring'. A SA won't shoot if dropped without a broken part because the trigger has to be HELD to the rear to shoot the gun. Vibration doesn't do it.

I'll be glad to help if I can.
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:31 PM
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This was a problem with original single action revolvers. When Ruger came out with the original Blackhawk and Super Blackhawks it was thought that these were state of the art revolvers and with out the firing pin on the hammer were extremely safe. I remember reading one of my stepfathers magazines where the author was hunting with a Super Blackhawk and climbing through heavy brush the gun fell out of the holster and shot a hole through his hat. Ruger would not offer to rework all these revolvers for free if this were not a problem. The risk of injury is not worth even a remote chance of accidental discharge. We don't want our heads turned into a canoe.

I was active in SASS for a while and would examine revolvers to assure they were indexed so the empty chamber was under the hammer. At that time SASS and mounted shooting were held at the same events and the 5 shot rule was applied there as well. The practice with mounted shooting was the club supplied all the ammo/blanks and people to load the revolvers just prior to entering the arena to compete. This was done so the rider wasn't trying to hold a horse and reload and so only supplied ammo was used. There is enough of a gap between the cylinder and frame that it is not a problem to see where the empty chamber is.

We always need to be as safe as possible when shooting and set an example to others as how to handle fire arms.
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:25 PM
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Only load five in Colt, but be SURE the chamber under the hammer is empty. Otherwise, you might as well load six--you're just as likely to have an accident.
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