Acceptable Groups - Shooters Forum
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Ex-Military Rifles & Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By simcoe
  • 1 Post By mausernut
  • 1 Post By dmsbandit
  • 1 Post By nachogrande
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:26 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 50
Acceptable Groups


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Not sure if this is where to ask this. Am currently reloading for sporterised BSA No 1 Mk 111 That has a Parker - Hale barrel on it.
Best groups so far are 2 " or slightly less. My question is should I keep trying for a better load or is this as good as it will ever be?
__________________
If you can't be an example, be a WARNING
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:27 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: foothills of the Simcoe Mtns. Goldendale, Wa.
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausernut View Post
Not sure if this is where to ask this. Am currently reloading for sporterised BSA No 1 Mk 111 That has a Parker - Hale barrel on it.
Best groups so far are 2 " or slightly less. My question is should I keep trying for a better load or is this as good as it will ever be?


First thing to find out is whether it's the Indian or the arrow. Not long ago a rifle that would shoot MOA at 100yds was a "keeper", and you're not far from that. I realize that in today's internet world pretty much everyone can/does shoot at least half that at even longer ranges. I discount about 90% of these claims, some can, most can't. I'd keep working with it and if you can get into the 1inch at 100 area I'd call that a success. Careful hand loading should get you there, and who know's, maybe you to can join the groups of world class shooters that are so prevalent these days. I'm still trying but after 50 years of shooting I believe it's become unobtainable for me now.
Gil Martin likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:49 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 50
Pretty sure it is the arrow. Here are 2 groups from other rifles, both with open sights. The first is from an 1899 Oberndorf 6.5 x 55 and the second is form my K 31 7.5 x 55.

Acceptable Groups-img_0215-2-640x640-.jpg

Acceptable Groups-img_0187-1-480x640-.jpg

Darn they went sideways.
__________________
If you can't be an example, be a WARNING
Reply With Quote
 
  #4  
Old 04-17-2017, 01:58 PM
Dollar Bill's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,137
I'm assuming that when it was sporterized, the top hand guard was eliminated and the forend shortened, that would pretty typical. 2" groups are pretty darn good, in my opinion. This rifle started out as a pure combat rifle, one of the best, seeing service all over the world. I have an extensive file on accurizing one in it's original configuration from a friend in the CBA, but I don't know how applicable it would be to your rifle. Can you post some pictures of the rifle?
__________________
Good shooting...
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2017, 03:08 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 50
Acceptable Groups-img_0118-800x600-.jpg

Acceptable Groups-img_0119-640x480-.jpg

Acceptable Groups-img_0120-640x480-.jpg

Here are some pictures. Might have some better ones but will have to search.
Dollar Bill likes this.
__________________
If you can't be an example, be a WARNING
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-18-2017, 01:15 AM
Gil Martin's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schnecksville, PA
Posts: 2,822
It depends

Very nice pictures, thanks for sharing. Most folks would be pleased with 2-inch groups from a military rifle. I would try different bullets and powders to see if these are any improvements in groups. If not, i would be happy with the groups. All the best...
Gil
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:36 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 50
This gun is to be used for deer hunting in the end and those groups will do the job. But the guys at the local sporting goods store call me anal because I like my groups to be sub moa. Was really just wondering if a Lee Enfield is capable of a 1" group. I will try some more loads. One thing I am going to do is buy a neck sizing die because I have 9 303's to load for. 2 already have loads shooting 1" or less, but they are P 14s.
__________________
If you can't be an example, be a WARNING

Last edited by mausernut; 04-18-2017 at 04:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-18-2017, 02:49 PM
recoil junky's Avatar
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Craig CO. Elk Hunting Capitol of the World!
Posts: 6,994
There's a chap comes on here every now and again, kombi1976, who's pretty knowledgeable about SMLE's, I was hoping he might see this and give a pointer or two.

RJ
__________________
Keep your powder dry and when you go afield take the kids and please..........wear your seat belts.
I am the ORIGINAL recoil junky ©, often imitated, but never equalled.
Proud Father of a SoldierMedic in The 82nd Airborne 325thAIR White Falcons
IUOE Local #9
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:26 PM
dmsbandit's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,346
what bullet weight you trying?

What powders?

I have a "sporterized"/cut down 303 brit and it seems to prefer the 174gr bullets over the 150s. I use a slow burning powder, because I don't want to beat it up. I also NECK SIZE the brass to keep from wearing the cases out in a few firings. Enfields are noted for being tough on brass because of the rear locking bolt.

With iron sights, my friend and I can usually keep the shots around 1" at 50 yds with no issues. usually we get two nearly touching and one flier.

With my old eyes and wearing glasses, irons are not my friend anymore. But I manage ok. I would think you might be about to get about 1/2" off your groups with some tinkering.
Attached Thumbnails
Acceptable Groups-100_0960.jpg  
broom_jm likes this.
__________________
"I don't drink or smoke, I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:29 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,736
2" groups with iron sights on military rifles is about good as it gets in my opinion.
Concerning group sizes I have way more rifles that shoot over MOA than those who shoot under. Those are rifles with scopes and carefully worked handloads.
Anyway with what you are dealing with you are golden! Still don't hurt to see if you can up it a notch!
__________________
Still Learnin' as I go!

NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-19-2017, 04:23 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 50
I am using 150 gr Hornady with H4895. 36 to 39.5 grains so far. I am using this combination because the gun has an aftermarket Parker Hale barrel that is 20.75 inches.
__________________
If you can't be an example, be a WARNING
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-19-2017, 06:07 AM
dmsbandit's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausernut View Post
I am using 150 gr Hornady with H4895. 36 to 39.5 grains so far. I am using this combination because the gun has an aftermarket Parker Hale barrel that is 20.75 inches.
try some 174gr Hornady or a similar weight, and something a little slower for powder. maybe rel-15 or 19? I use Rel-22.

The barrel isn't the weak link, so to speak, it's the action. the thing that makes the enfield so quick to operate is also what makes it weaker, and harder on brass.
__________________
"I don't drink or smoke, I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-19-2017, 10:26 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Central, Oregon
Posts: 52
Acceptable it dependent on who is doing the shooting. I'm a 1" or better guy but while great for a hunting rifle, leaves a lot to be desired in a target rifle. I think some guy's feel that 2" is acceptable but they confine their shooting to reasonable ranges. I've known guy's that have had 1" rifle's and 3" skills. There's problem their only if the guy think's he's good to go much beyond 200 yds.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:41 AM
MusgraveMan's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Craig, Colorado / Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 5,165
Mausernut, I sent you a PM.
__________________
"n the sixties, American kids were dreaming of building rocket ships and going to the moon. Today, they’re trying to figure out what gender they are and which bathroom they should be using".

John Hawkins
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:22 AM
Hanshi's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 602
IMHO, any rifle that won't group under 2" at 100 yards is merely "satisfactory" for deer size game at that distance or farther. While I've had groups as small as 1" at 100, rifles firing straight or pistol type cartridges simply don't have the range to suffer from 2 moa for deer.

I currently own three rifles that will beat 1 moa; two of them will beat .3 moa. These rifles are, of course, scoped. My hunting is and has been for many years done with flintlocks. With these primitive sights it's certainly "the Indian" and not the rifle. While my eyes are not as good as they use to be, 4 moa is about my limit with them. I've still taken a few deer at 75 to 100 + yards. That is my self imposed limit under normal conditions; most shots, in fact, have been 50yds or closer.

Accuracy with bottle neck cartridges in scoped rifles absolutely have to be 1 moa or less (or at least crowding that mark) for me to consider them "hunting accurate".
__________________
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:41 PM
Dollar Bill's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,137
Shooting groups is a far cry from hunting accuracy. I know of few people who rate their rifle accuracy from a field positions. I would guess that the average shooter with a true MOA rifle probably shoots 2-3" 5-shot groups from a field position, at least that's what most have been able to do that I have challenged on the subject. But even that's academic when talking hunting. Then, a single cold bore shot to the point of aim is all that matters.
__________________
Good shooting...
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-23-2017, 07:02 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 404
I think how you reload and what die system you use could also be a factor in potential accuracy .
Also how good the bullets area in reality , as not a lot of accuracy work goes into making .311 bullets in factories . The barrels on LE are variable and some shoot better than others .
There's a whole range of factors including how you shoot that affects accuracy but 2 inch is not too bad from an old back locker . With work and strict attention to details you should be able to improve that a bit more .
Finding another bolt head that has tighter head clearance can also tighten up groups.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-23-2017, 08:14 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: West coast central Florida
Posts: 3,569
Gotta be in it to win it.

You won't know for sure unless you try. 2" @ 100 yards? With open sights I'd be happy as a pig in mud, with a scope, not as much.
dmsbandit likes this.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
200 yd v.s. 100 yd groups recoil junky Handloading Procedures/Practices 12 09-07-2016 06:34 PM
Acceptable accuracy cvc944 Rifles and Rifle Cartridges 33 09-14-2010 01:43 AM
Rectangular groups AaronS Handloading Procedures/Practices 13 08-24-2009 08:34 AM
Better Ruger 10/22 trigger groups? Naphtali Rimfire Rifles 0 08-23-2009 08:28 AM
Tighter Groups in a 22-250 oberg Handloading Procedures/Practices 9 03-13-2009 07:08 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:32 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive - Privacy Statement >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
Privacy Statement | Contact Webmaster
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1