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  #1  
Old 03-14-2017, 11:45 AM
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Carrying Concealed! The long double-pull... The no safety... safety?


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OK. It took some time for me to feel comfortable carrying my concealed pistol, without a safety, a round chambered, and of course, de-cocked (as I will be if this gun goes off). I totally see clearly why it is safe to carry that way NOW. But, I only need to remember how I felt about carrying that way in the beginning. Until I completely leaned and understand pistol safeties, I was a bit uneasy with the thought of any form of snag on my hammer, and a partial hammer release and cartridge strike. The SA/DA pistol I carry has a "Safety Notch" a drop safety variant, which protects against that from happening hopefully.

I say hopefully because "Safeties" are mechanical, and can fail!

So, I can understand how scary this must seem to others, who are not gun so savvy, or even just have another opinion about firearm safety. Do you remember the first time you used the decocker on a pistol with a round chambered? It seemed like it should go off, it was kinda weird. Just needed to learn the mechanics of it, to have it feel comfortable. The question still arises...
Why don't you want a safety on your gun? You crazy?

Depending on the audience, I will explain slowly in detail. Education is vital regarding gun safety. Additionally, I'll sometimes recommend a concise web article regarding firearms safeties for a detailed look.

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Last edited by MikeG; 03-14-2017 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:35 PM
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Welcome from New Mexico, ATM!

I started out shooting a revolver at a very young age - a .22 revolver of my dad's. I couldn't carry it of course, but it was always loaded. As a young adult, my first duty carry was with a Ruger revolver. Again, always loaded. And have been carrying DA/SA decocker since 1990 and DAO pistols since 1996, I trust them completely. I think the only thing that I wouldn't trust is carrying a semi-auto pistol without a round chambered or a (modern) revolver without a full cylinder.
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:14 PM
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I don't want a safety on my carry gun because it would be terribly un-handy on a snubbie revolver.

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ATM View Post
I say hopefully because "Safeties" are mechanical, and can fail!
In 4 decades of serious handgun work both competitively and on duty, never had a mechanical safety fail.

In fact there's only one safety, the person using the firearm.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:22 PM
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Congrats on your 1 week membership aniversary & 5 posts.

NO NEED to speak clearly or slowly, it won't be appreciated. Many believe in the KISS principal, Murphy's law, are not crazy, & won't presume to preach how you should do things. With your short time CC'ing you are going to tell us how to do it, & probably get your own U-tube video. I guess U-tube has no limit on the know next to nothing/inexperienced & these how to videos.

Last edited by nachogrande; 03-14-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:05 PM
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NO NEED to speak clearly or slowly, it won't be appreciated. Many believe in the KISS principal, Murphy's law, are not crazy, & won't presume to preach how you should do things. With your short time CC'ing you are going to tell us how to do it, & probably get your own U-tube video. I guess U-tube has no limit on the know next to nothing/inexperienced & these how to videos.
Wait!!! You mean Youtube isn't a quality source for educating?

JUST KIDDING!
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rojkoh View Post
In 4 decades of serious handgun work both competitively and on duty, never had a mechanical safety fail.

In fact there's only one safety, the person using the firearm.
I'm aware you have more experience with handguns than I even though I've been shooting them for over six decades, as my lines of work except for a brief stint in the military, didn't require their carry. But, I had one that would occasionally fire when the safety was pushed from the "safe" to the "fire" position. What I would call an "accidental" or "inadvertent" discharge rather than a "negligent " discharge. It was not, however, an auto-loader one would carry, but bolt action XP100. I suspect a prior owner had done some "bubba" gunsmithing. It's been repaired and now functions as designed. I agree completely with your second sentence.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:09 PM
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I It was not, however, an auto-loader one would carry, but bolt action XP100. I suspect a prior owner had done some "bubba" gunsmithing. It's been repaired and now functions as designed. I agree completely with your second sentence.
XP100? You don't seem to be aware of the Remington settlement over bad trigger design. XP100 is covered under that one. I had a Remington Mohawk I loved and used for years until it went to another officer. No problems and this one is also covered under the settlement.

Using the XP100 is basically a really bad example. It's not the safety, the trigger is the problem.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:35 PM
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Yeah, the thought popped into my head that was part of the Remington / Walker trigger settlement.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:03 PM
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XP100? You don't seem to be aware of the Remington settlement over bad trigger design. XP100 is covered under that one. I had a Remington Mohawk I loved and used for years until it went to another officer. No problems and this one is also covered under the settlement.

Using the XP100 is basically a really bad example. It's not the safety, the trigger is the problem.
I wasn't aware of the settlement. Had it repaired by an excellent gunsmith, who unfortunately, when I called him recently about working on a Bond trigger, told me he no longer works on triggers because of liability concerns.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:55 PM
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I wasn't aware of the settlement. Had it repaired by an excellent gunsmith, who unfortunately, when I called him recently about working on a Bond trigger, told me he no longer works on triggers because of liability concerns.
Again, it's a bad example. The issue is the trigger, not a mechanical safety.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:09 AM
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Better read the fine print on the Remington settlement. Some older model rifles, like the 600 and 660, cannot be repaired - Remington will give you a gift certificate for 100$ or so if you send your firearm in (and I believe you don't get the gun back).
I think the XP100 is on the 'can't repair' list.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:20 AM
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Better read the fine print on the Remington settlement.
I have, point being it wasn't a mechanical safety problem.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:01 PM
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Better read the fine print on the Remington settlement. Some older model rifles, like the 600 and 660, cannot be repaired - Remington will give you a gift certificate for 100$ or so if you send your firearm in (and I believe you don't get the gun back).
I think the XP100 is on the 'can't repair' list.
The gunsmith I had work on my XP100 did an excellent repair and greatly improved the trigger. Had the impression that the XP100 and 600 have the same trigger. If Remington can't, maybe we should avoid their firearms in the future. Also saw the 722 on the list, but mine doesn't have a problem as far as I know. What about the 760 and 7600 - didn't see anything about them?

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Old 03-16-2017, 04:25 PM
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In 4 decades of serious handgun work both competitively and on duty, never had a mechanical safety fail.

In fact there's only one safety, the person using the firearm.
I haven't been doing this as long as you, but haven't had a safety fail either. That said, I also haven't won the lottery, been in a vehicular accident where a seatbelt saved my life, etc.

The NRA teaches that mechanical safeties can fail. Its taught in their classes and instructors and safety officers are taught to teach it.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that this is where it is coming from. I think they teach this so that people don't use the mechanical safety as an excuse to turn off the "real safety" (the person using the firearm). As in, the presence of a mechanical safety is not an excuse to ignore the basic rules of gun safety.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Irv S View Post
The gunsmith I had work on my XP100 did an excellent repair and greatly improved the trigger. Had the impression that the XP100 and 600 have the same trigger. If Remington can't, maybe we should avoid their firearms in the future. Also saw the 722 on the list, but mine doesn't have a problem as far as I know. What about the 760 and 7600 - didn't see anything about them?
Different trigger. Similar to the 870 / 1100. "Remington Common Fire Control" system, I think, is what it is called.

Different issues with that one, and it is not subject to the Walker trigger settlement.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:30 PM
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I haven't been doing this as long as you, but haven't had a safety fail either. That said, I also haven't won the lottery, been in a vehicular accident where a seatbelt saved my life, etc.

The NRA teaches that mechanical safeties can fail. Its taught in their classes and instructors and safety officers are taught to teach it.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that this is where it is coming from. I think they teach this so that people don't use the mechanical safety as an excuse to turn off the "real safety" (the person using the firearm). As in, the presence of a mechanical safety is not an excuse to ignore the basic rules of gun safety.
I'm an old Cooper guy and we're tougher than about 99% of the people out there on the issue of safety. An old West Point friend of mine doesn't argue with me when he gets a tiny bit sloppy with gun handling. I have never, not will I ever back away from that.

At a 3 gun match by here awhile back, I chewed into an NRA safety officer for allowing people to wander off the line with muzzles going everwhere even with the rifles were unloaded. I took it up and had a heated discussion with the range owner. I did not renew my membership at that range and drive an hour extra to a range where people understand proper safety, when I need that range (for distance)

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Last edited by rojkoh; 03-17-2017 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:13 PM
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This is my safety...

Stupid movie quote.

I used to be very disliked around the arms room at several units because of my demand for "muzzle control".
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:01 AM
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Stupid movie quote.

I used to be very disliked around the arms room at several units because of my demand for "muzzle control".
Still have a couple of old Gunny friends I'd be happy to introduce them to. As bad as I am, they're worse.
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