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Old 04-19-2017, 01:36 PM
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Birth of CCW Reciprocity in America!


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OK. Let’s say I am Alien, of “good moral character” from another nearby planet. I land here in the US and quickly realize there are some dangers here, and I need to be able to protect myself. So I request a firearm license, you know, to comply with the planets rules and regulations. The local law enforcement provided me with the federal criteria. It indicated that I needed to become a citizen, to be trained and qualify at the range, with the firearm I legally purchased, and have registered, and will be carrying for defense. Cool! Additionally, I would need to attend a CCW Safety training class, instructing me on aspects and repercussions during and after a self-defense encounter. If I were that Alien, I would be pleased to see the planet has the same common sense rules regarding firearms as the rest of the universe.

So then...? Why haven't our UNITED states agreed upon a baseline skill criteria and training, that once met, would meet the safety requirements of police, government, and citizens, for law abiding citizens to carry firearms... anywhere in the United States of America? That would be the true birth of CCW Reciprocity in America!

Thoughts?


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  #2  
Old 04-19-2017, 02:02 PM
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Well, best I know the Federal Government has never come up with a national "driver's license" requirement either, leaving that to the individual states. The requirements and age restrictions range from 15 with a learners permit to age restrictions for nighttime driving and driving with "×" amount of passengers in a younger person's vehicle.

The forward thinking for a "national" acceptance for a state's CC permit has been muddied by MSM and their reporting of states that also permit Constitutional Carry; ie, concealed carry without any restrictions for those allowed to legally possess firearms.

For those states that allow constitutional carry, I'd think they also have a way to get a CC carry permit? If that is the case, I am fully in favor of persons having a state issued permit to be able to carry in ANY OTHER STATE.

My state's permit is accepted is accepted in 40 other states, but not all the states I normally visit and that is very frustrating when I travel, especially with my family.

Without some type of "system" for a state to give an actual permit for CC we will never have all 50 states online for an acceptance of all other states' permits.

Like it or not, that's the way it will have to happen.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:47 PM
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I still believe it is best to keep the Feds out of this issue. We have made and continue to make HUGE strides at the state level. The explosion of constitutional carry states in the last couple of years is phenomenal. It is not a stagnant issue and now with Trump having the possibility of an overtly conservative court one or two more picks likely, the prognosis looks better and better for the second amendment.

That is also coupled with the knowledge that states can easily subvert and national reciprocity of CCW with restrictions on ammo, guns and magazine capacity. The reality is that these restrictions would make actual reciprocity difficult if not impossible in practice.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:14 PM
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In TN's comparison the difference is the 2nd amendment is a right whereas driving is a privilege.
It would be awesome if the second could be taken at face value with no restrictions. The reality is people are stupid and can dream up ways to hurt themselves and others even unintentionally.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnhunter View Post
For those states that allow constitutional carry, I'd think they also have a way to get a CC carry permit? If that is the case, I am fully in favor of persons having a state issued permit to be able to carry in ANY OTHER STATE..
My Brother as well as many other family members live in Arizona which is now constitutional carry from what they've told me. From what I've gathered from them, is that if you're a state resident you do not need a CHL to carry in state. If you want though, they have their CHL still available so you may carry out of state in states that accept an Arizona CHL. Which is quite a few I believe. I don't know how much their CHL costs to get, but may be worth it if you ever travel.

A CHL is pretty expensive here in New Mexico once you've paid for everything. Once you have it, you don't let it expire as you have to pay full price for everything again. Renewals are 4 years and you have to pay an instructor to watch you put 25 rounds or so into a target every 2 years. You get a good time window for both renewals and the shoot. I can't remember prices exact, but instructors usually charge $20-40 to watch you shoot. A renewal is around $75 or less if I remember correctly. If you have to pay for a whole new CHL class and License it's around $300-400. A big investment... and FYI, carrying a loaded gun in New Mexico without a license usually results in just a fine or a warning (petty misdemeanor). Consider it a penalty for sucking at concealment!

I enjoy their knife laws in Arizona. Or more so the lack there of! I can carry whatever knife I want while there... it's great. If I lived there it probably wouldn't be so cool though. I like to carry a medium size Double Action OTF or automatic knife while there. In my current home state I can't carry them so I'm stuck with a regular folder or assist open.

Last edited by Trent12; 04-19-2017 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:33 AM
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Thanks. I looked into getting a CC permit from Az and even received their application forms to do it. Their permit was accepted by about 28 other states when I researched it and I ended up with my state's instead as it's accepted by 40 or 41 other states.

I have nothing against Constitutional Carry for those states who choose to allow that. However, if we are ever to see the day for national acceptance for every state's permit and process, all states must also maintain some type of additional licensing process for that type permit for that to happen.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:18 AM
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I strongly favor reciprocity, but did anyone else have a negative reaction to the Original Post of this thread as a push to have more federal government control and bureaucracy and more potential work for the new instructor?
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Irv S View Post
I strongly favor reciprocity, but did anyone else have a negative reaction to the Original Post of this thread as a push to have more federal government control and bureaucracy and more potential work for the new instructor?
Well that thought did cross my mind.

Afraid I don't know what the answer would be. Reciprocity is a great idea for those who travel and find themselves in violation of the law crossing a state line.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2017, 07:51 AM
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The Constitution assures the right to keep and bear arms, the how and why remained up to the States. I support National Reciprocity for carry for the same reasons I agree with National Reciprocity for driver's licenses.
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:01 AM
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In my legal theory, the entire concept of a permit or license is unconstitutional, and they have generally been introduced in states to appease those who would have them remain as "no carry" in order to get carry lghealized, and accepted. Most states have used them as a first step towards reclaiming a Constitutional right, and once they are implemented, they tend to get progressively more lax, more accepted, and in several states have been done away with altogether , often referred to as "Constitutional carry". Most of the losses of Constitutional rights have come at the state and local level, and most of the recent reclaiming of those rights have come back the same way. While forced reciprocity may sound great to people going to CA, NY, NJ and other infringement states, it could be a nightmare for those states that generally recognize Constitutional rights. The whole concept of feds forcing other states to recognize licenses and permits that are unconstitutional on their face sets a very bad precedent. The only role for the federal government here is when federal courts review state laws and strike them down as unconstitutional. In other words, the problem isn't that NJ won't recognize my Ohio gun permit. The problem is that NJ has unconstitutional laws that require a permit. We also need to face the fact that some states will never get called on by the federal courts, and that many of those states will always have a majority of voters that have no problem with infringing on the Constitution. Look how long it took to get Heller adjudicated. Really, the last thing you want is the federal agencies involved unless it's the courts striking down unconstitutional restrictions.
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