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  #41  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
A loophole that congress needs to act on. Alright. Let me propose this as our new law.

"From this day forward, it shall now be against the law to break the law."

Did I miss any loopholes?

Cheezywan
It seems obvious to me. The system partially worked in that they did take the gun away from him, but then it failed because they had to give it back to him when he still posed a threat. And he did break the law by going into a federal building while armed, and was not charged. Again, a failure of the system. People hearing voices telling them to join terrorist organizations have no business being allowed firearms. I don't think that's too difficult a point to agree on, but I'm sure there are plenty of folks who think it's just another aspect of this supposed conspiracy by the left to take away our guns.
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2017, 12:52 PM
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Is a "vast right wing Russian conspiracy".

Can you find a missed loophole in my proposed law?
"From this day forward, it shall now be against the law to break the law."
I am not in charge! I'll work with you. Suggest your idea for a solution?

Cheezywan
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  #43  
Old 01-08-2017, 01:24 PM
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The "supposed" conspiracy?? That's enough to make me chuckle out loud. There is no "supposed" about it.
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  #44  
Old 01-08-2017, 02:41 PM
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Yes, TnH, the "supposed" conspiracy. Since becoming a gun person, I have gotten quite a bit of amusement from talking with some gun folks about this plan to take all our guns. It's just as amusing as some of the stuff my lefty friends say about the "gun clingers". It would be nice if we could learn to stop believing in stereotypes. Are there folks on the left that want a gun free America? Yes, but not as many as some folks claim. Are there folks on the right that think there shouldn't be any regulation of guns whatsoever? Yes, but not as many as some folks claim. I think what you will find, as I have found, is that most of us have no problem with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, and that we don't want them getting into the hands of people who shouldn't have them, like this Santiago fella. We've got to stop broad brushing each other.
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  #45  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:33 PM
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I'm not "broad brushing" any citizens, only the Libtard politicians who promote that idea. Voting for those politicians is paramount with being in bed with them.
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  #46  
Old 01-08-2017, 06:09 PM
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What the incident "proves," if anything - is if you don't enforce the laws on the books, then it is fairly well pointless to enact more laws, that won't be enforced either. Sadly, that bit of logic is fairly well lost of the majority of the population. "Do something" becomes the mantra, rather than "quit screwing up."

"Never let a good crisis go to waste." I believe we have heard that before. EVERY time there is a gun incident that could help fan the flames of hysterical gun control, the media jumps on it. But.... drive your car into a crowd of people and jump out with a machete? Meh.... we shall not dwell on how many people cars, or knives, kill. Because cars and knives are not guns and the media is not obsessed with banning either.

People can see through the absurdity of a CAR not being able to kill without a driver, and a knife not being able to kill without a human holding it.... but guns? Gosh those things are dangerous, ban the guns!

That is the approach of the gun-control crowd - blame the gun, ignore the 20,000+ laws already on the books, blame the NRA, blame all gun owners.... ad nauseum.
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  #47  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:19 AM
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I did a little searching last night and found the 2014 FBI stats on murder in the U.S.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-20

You can download to Excel then it is simple to total up the columns. Some interesting facts.

11,961 murders in 2014. That is far less than the media typically hypes as 'gun deaths.' So that should be the baseline for murder as a result of criminal activity, and by the way, it is about a THIRD of the number of auto fatalities (typically 30,000+ per year).

3,837 murders were NOT from guns. 1,567 from knives or cutting instruments, 1,610 "other" which are probably "blunt instruments" (think baseball bats, clubs, etc.). A surprising 660 from "hands, feet, fists, etc." which includes "pushed."

So already we have an average of 10 or so, a DAY, from things that aren't even guns. About 30 a day from firearms, and several of those PER DAY are just the city of Chicago, alone. 4 or so a day from knives, and the media doesn't beat the drum of "knife control." Or "fist control." Or "blunt object control."

While the airport shooting is tragic, and revealed perhaps some bad judgement / fiascos by law enforcement - it hardly identifies a trend that requires (more) draconian gun control. But you can bet your bottom dollar that a gun-hating democrat in congress will try to make something of it. To me, it was refreshing to think that the new administration is going in a direction of holding people accountable for failures - instead of blaming the rest of the people in the country who aren't murdering people with their legally-owned firearms. Will have to see if anything actually happens.

Arm yourselves with facts, and push back if you get into a discussion with the gun-fearing crowd who have been stirred into a frenzy by the media talking heads.
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Last edited by MikeG; 01-09-2017 at 07:21 AM.
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  #48  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:49 AM
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Some more information on why he got the gun back is coming out. Apparently, because he went voluntarily to the FBI office to tell them he was hearing voices, and because he didn't go before a judge when he went to the mental facility, he was able to get his gun back. A voluntary commitment for mental health issues, even when hearing voices to join terrorist organizations isn't enough to have to your guns kept from you. The sheriff in that county is calling for a change in the law, as are others.

It has also come to light that no warning bells were sounded when he bought a one way ticket to FL and brought no luggage whatsoever with him and only checked in the gun.

This shooting could have been prevented. There has to be a better way of keeping guns out of the hands of people like Santiago. He clearly was unstable, but current regulations did not allow for his gun to stay confiscated until a court determined if he could get it back. Y'all can argue all you want, but this is a loophole that needs to be closed. There's nothing anyone can say to convince me that the founding fathers intended for mentally ill people to have guns. This sort of thing is happening entirely too much.
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  #49  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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Sometime, soon, we hand gunners need to a address comprehensive regulations that apply to all states.
If we don't regulate ourselves, someone will do it for us.
As they have done in the past.
We can't go on like this, it's killing us.
Jim
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  #50  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
This shooting could have been prevented. There has to be a better way of keeping guns out of the hands of people like Santiago. He clearly was unstable, but current regulations did not allow for his gun to stay confiscated until a court determined if he could get it back. Y'all can argue all you want, but this is a loophole that needs to be closed. There's nothing anyone can say to convince me that the founding fathers intended for mentally ill people to have guns. This sort of thing is happening entirely too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
"From this day forward, it shall now be against the law to break the law."
I am not in charge! I'll work with you. Suggest your idea for a solution? Cheezywan
I have offered a solution to you with a proposed "new" law that takes care of the "loophole" you speak of.

Now you are there. At that airport. A felon with a gun "disobeying the law" is looking at you. What can you suggest to stop him/her from taking your life?

Cheezywan
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  #51  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easternhunter View Post
Sometime, soon, we hand gunners need to a address comprehensive regulations that apply to all states.
If we don't regulate ourselves, someone will do it for us.
As they have done in the past.
We can't go on like this, it's killing us.
Jim
Do you consider that monster "we"?

Cheezywan
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  #52  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
I have offered a solution to you with a proposed "new" law that takes care of the "loophole" you speak of.

Now you are there. At that airport. A felon with a gun "disobeying the law" is looking at you. What can you suggest to stop him/her from taking your life?

Cheezywan
Your solution is no solution. Therefore, I don't particularly feel the need to answer your question.
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  #53  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:13 PM
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Your solution is?

Cheezywan
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  #54  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
Your solution is?

Cheezywan
I think I've done a decent job of making my position on this incident clear, Cheezy.
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  #55  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:23 PM
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If "we" all obey "gun free zone" laws, it works. You first! I hope you don't mind if I stand back and watch (just to make sure you really know what your talking about). Go on! It's perfectly safe. See the sign? Can't miss it.

Cheezywan
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  #56  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:06 PM
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If all they do is refuse to allow folks to transport firearms in checked luggage it will stop no one from going to the checked luggage carousels with a firearm from the parking lot and opening fire. If they pre-screen before entering the terminal, then huge lines will form outside where cars and trucks (or guns) could be used to terrorize folks. The problem is not airports and not guns. Anywhere large numbers of people gather is an opportunity for a terrorist or madman to use any destructive device available to destroy lives. Even hardening soft targets just moves the targets. Perhaps banning large crowds would be more effective. Unfortunately, we are condemned to live in an age where the rights of the insane and politically radical are paramount to the safety of the citizens.
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  #57  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
Some more information on why he got the gun back is coming out. Apparently, because he went voluntarily to the FBI office to tell them he was hearing voices, and because he didn't go before a judge when he went to the mental facility, he was able to get his gun back. A voluntary commitment for mental health issues, even when hearing voices to join terrorist organizations isn't enough to have to your guns kept from you. The sheriff in that county is calling for a change in the law, as are others.

It has also come to light that no warning bells were sounded when he bought a one way ticket to FL and brought no luggage whatsoever with him and only checked in the gun.

This shooting could have been prevented. There has to be a better way of keeping guns out of the hands of people like Santiago. He clearly was unstable, but current regulations did not allow for his gun to stay confiscated until a court determined if he could get it back. Y'all can argue all you want, but this is a loophole that needs to be closed. There's nothing anyone can say to convince me that the founding fathers intended for mentally ill people to have guns. This sort of thing is happening entirely too much.
With some 70% of the population on meds for anxiety, depression, etc, how should the law define who gets to have a weapon or who doesn't?
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  #58  
Old 01-09-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearBear View Post
If all they do is refuse to allow folks to transport firearms in checked luggage it will stop no one from going to the checked luggage carousels with a firearm from the parking lot and opening fire. If they pre-screen before entering the terminal, then huge lines will form outside where cars and trucks (or guns) could be used to terrorize folks. The problem is not airports and not guns. Anywhere large numbers of people gather is an opportunity for a terrorist or madman to use any destructive device available to destroy lives. Even hardening soft targets just moves the targets. Perhaps banning large crowds would be more effective. Unfortunately, we are condemned to live in an age where the rights of the insane and politically radical are paramount to the safety of the citizens.
You have some good points.

I can walk into the baggage claim area at the Austin airport, legally, with a (licensed) concealed handgun. And any number of other places where large amounts of people gather - grocery store, church, parking lots, parks, parade watching route, and the list just goes on and on and on and on. Furthermore, anyone who wants to ILLEGALLY carry a gun in those areas, can pretty well do so if they decide to.

The complete absurdity of enacting "one more" law, for only the purpose of foolishly deluding ourselves that people intent on MURDER will instead reconsider, because of a (relatively) minor charge of having a handgun where they shouldn't, never ceases to amaze me.

Good grief... put on your thinking cap (if you have one)... Florida already has the death penalty for murder! One more "law" to address a gun in the unsecured part of the airport? How much more severe will the punishment for the new law have to be, drawing and quartering the accused publicly????

Yes these deaths are tragic - no doubt. But when the media hypes a small number of people who were killed by a nutcase (who was probably going to kill some number of people, somewhere), their motive is clear. They don't care about people dying. They care about pushing their agenda!

There are literally more people killed in this country by prescription opioids, than murdered every year.

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/

Does the media care about that? Not when they are accepting advertising from the people producing the stuff.....

What about the case we had here some years back, a mother drowning all of her children? Sad, terrible, awful - but there was no hue and cry for more control and distribution of water. A notorious murderer, in prison for dismembering someone with an ax about to face the death penalty (Texas, 1990s, I think) and there was no call for "ax control" by the press. In fact, the press tried to get her pardoned! The press cares very little about anything but furthering their own leftist politics, and protecting their advertising revenue.

Look, the gun ban crowd is not stupid. They are sly, crafty, clever, devious, and fake sincerity to the point that even gun owners believe their garbage. They will continue to beat the drum for gun control - and dupe many gun owners along the way with foolish propaganda, that any thinking person could see right through.

"We have to do something" is the mantra of the uninformed, illogical, emotional respondent. Also the mantra of those pushing their gun control agenda. And naturally, the segment of the population that is afraid of guns, will support it all anyway. That's a powerful 1-2-3 punch that gun owners need to be aware of, and speak out to put a stop to.

When there is a 'sanity gage' on every person's forehead, or perhaps a dipstick to check it with.... then I think there is something to go on as far as preventing the mentally ill from having firearms. Either that, or go back to institutionalizing anyone suspected of being mentally ill. Given how little we know about how the human brain works, I kinda doubt either will be a good solution anytime soon.

But gun owners will foolishly blame themselves and support the "we have to DO something" crowd, if they don't stop and think about it.
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  #59  
Old 01-09-2017, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooknline View Post
With some 70% of the population on meds for anxiety, depression, etc, how should the law define who gets to have a weapon or who doesn't?
Exactly, it is a great trap for gun control. Doctors push pills, discover that some people on the pills go on homicidal / suicidal ramages.... then "oops, guess we better punish anyone who ever took them, by taking their guns away and denying them the right to self-defense."
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  #60  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:55 PM
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I've told the story here before, but many years ago there was some terrible shooting tragedy somewhere in the country and the mayor of our small city made a big show of destroying his .22 revolver to show how people should disdain guns. I wrote a letter to the editor that was published suggesting that, if the mayor did not trust himself with a gun, he should rid his house of knives and hammers as well.
Idiocy reigns supreme.
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