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  #101  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
It's worse than that, Joe. They don't fear dying, either. The only way to limit the carnage is to restore the right to self defense to people it has been taken away from.

Speaking of carnage.... our friends on the left, who like to never let a good crisis go to waste, will constantly and incessantly beat the drum about this alleged danger to the continuance of civilization.... but mass shootings, however defined, are only a very small part of the murder rate of the country, which is only a very small part of the accidental death rate of the country.

In fact mass shootings are even significant compared to the annual murders in Chicago, that great gun control mecca of peace. If our friends on the left actually cared about saving human lives, which they don't, they would instead insist that we just round up every inner city youth wearing gang colors, just on the premise that gang members are in fact responsible for a disproportionate rate of murder and mayhem. But, the howling from the civil libertarians .... I can hear it now....

And, still, despite it being pointed out many times in this thread alone, our friends on the left ignore the fact that there are already processes to adjudicate people as mentally incompetent. No no no.... we don't need to follow any existing process or law, we just KNOW when someone shouldn't have a gun!

We see this on the forum after every such (tragic) event; the knee-jerk reaction and the 'opportunity' for the left to come onto the forum, and simultaneously promote their moral superiority vis-a-vis, while at the same time displaying appalling ignorance of very simple math, and equally appalling ignorance of existing law.

And they love to pretend such things would stop terrorists! I wonder if there was an equally ignorant faction in 1944/1945 who suggested that new mental health laws were all it would take to stop kamikazes, vs. the more expedient solution that the Navy found in the quad-mount 40mm Bofors?
Mike, I think you're missing the point. Of course there are current laws on the books that would have allowed law enforcement to keep his gun had he not VOLUNTARILY came forward. This is where the loophole exists that I'm advocating for closure. You can pretend it doesn't exist, say this is a knee-jerk reaction, say I don't understand current law, yada, yada all you want, but it won't change the fact that law enforcement had no choice other than to give him his gun back because of a loophole in current law. The system tried to work in this case but couldn't because of a flaw that should be corrected. Why you think correcting that flaw is such a bad idea is beyond me.
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  #102  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
Actually, the commutations were not given to any felons who committed crimes that involved violence, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to the bash Obama no matter what crowd.


We've been warned not to pursue this any further so I can't reference the article that corroborates my statement.
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  #103  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:44 AM
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Wheelchair assistance shows the way

I still say that someone up in Anchorage, AK. is the one who messed up, here. Delta wouldn't let me put any ammo into my locked metal rifle case, with my two firearms. Their requirements for commercial packaging for ammunition was explained as being to ensure that no primers could be detonated, accidentally, by rough baggage handling.

My wildcat 416 cartridges were inside Hornady paste board cartons, but also had Frankford Arsenal plastic eggshell packaging inside, on the case heads' ends. I also made up gummed labels on my computer printer, with the same nomenclature as what was stamped on my Wildcat rifle's barrel, and recorded on my I.C.E. forms. At the very least, that guy's ammunition should have been in a different piece of luggage, or packed inside a tin lock box, inside of a larger steel ammunition box, U.S. Army Surplus?? These cartridges shouldn't have been in the detachable, pistol's magazines, anyway.

And beyond that, the Airlines could easily walk someone out to the curb, making sure that these two red taped pieces of checked luggage stayed in plain sight, just like they provided wheelchair assistance, for my wife, out to the curbs. I pushed the luggage trolleys, while an attendant pushed her in her folding transport chair. The difference is that they always make sure that any company wheelchair comes straight back into the terminal counter area. This won't stop someone bent on shooting up some crowd or other, but it most certainly will protect the people, while they are passing through airport terminals.

Once outside, the Gun Free Zones are no longer the magnets that they are now. This latest shooter was so broke that he didn't even have a motel room reserved, on a credit card. And that could have been easily checked in Anchorage, AK.
Going to Africa in 2012, I had several S.A.P. 50 forms already filled out, before I left. My booking agent insisted that I do these, and at Jo'berg, RSA, one of them saved the day, when S. A. customs misplaced my luggage containing all of my ammunition.

I had to make another trip out to the Cape Town airport, the next day, to pick it up at the lost luggage counter. And even at my hotel, in Cape Town, the rifle case stayed in the locked baggage room behind the Harbor House's Concierge's desk, and not in my room. So the first time that my rifles and ammo came together was when my P.H. picked me up in the morning for the five and a half hour drive out to Merievelle, where we dropped off his wife, before going on to my quarters, near one of the giant sheep ranches, I was booked to hunt on.
So my conclusion is that there are already plenty of laws and conventions on the books. Someone has got to show some leadership, in closing down all of these loopholes. Without the A.D.A., "Americans with Disability Act", wheelchair assistance would be very iffy, today. Raising firearm checkouts to this same level, wouldn't stop someone from coming back into a gun free zone, locked and loaded, but it would keep the Airlines' skirts clean, from their exiting jet ramps, out to the curbs.
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  #104  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Right you are, Nacho. The crazies don't care. Whatever does the job. A subtle point lost on the gun-control crowd.
It's a more glaring point that we cannot give access to firearms (legally) to everyone.
Jim
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  #105  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:13 PM
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Me thinks that some recent people have come to this board to argue and troll more than to learn.
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  #106  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:16 PM
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Well, let’s see if we can find some common ground.

RR - I think you have an interesting point, that is our existing laws which call for due process, etc., and put the burden of proof on the accuser, are just too darn inconvenient to prevent whack jobs, terrorists, etc., from gaining access to deadly weapons.

So…. how can we keep known crazy people from committing the (admittedly) tiny fraction of murders in the United States today? Gee…. Hmmm…. I don’t know….

Eureka!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
As I mentioned in another post, I've worked in a mental health facility. Even with my limited training (Associate Degree in Human Services), I could easily determine who posed a threat and who didn't. All schizophrenics are not the same.
There ya have it! We just need a ‘Czar of Whacky, Violent People’ to exercise some leadership, and have them all locked up, post-haste. Due process….meh…. who needs that? Oh and yeah, locked up for sure. Well, gosh, if you KNOW they are crazy, and you can tell for sure they are violent, then guns are hardly the only problem, now are they? Knives, fists, blunt objects, automobiles…. The list goes on and on. Best lock them up, immediately, for the protection of America!

Is there a downside to this? Yeah… I can think of one… preventing mass shootings will only deal with a tiny fraction of a percent of murders. Gosh if it were only that simple, keeping guns out of the hands of the known crazies, or even locking them up. Alas it is more complicated, since the majority of murders aren't committed by people under psychiatric are. Huh… what can we do about that?????

Well, the answer is clear, at least to me. Since the largest part of the murder problem in this country is almost certainly due to inner city youth in violent gangs (see the gun control paradise of Chicago for an example), then dang, we just need a ‘Czar of Gangbangers and Homies’ to figure out who to lock up! Frankly – I doubt my ability to identify crazy people just on sight, but I’m more confident in my ability to identify gang members, who might be prone to commit violent crimes in the future (up to and including murder), and pass judgment on them. Just think how much more efficient the system would be, without any due process, defense attorneys, et al. No more revolving door justice! Haul them in, put them in jail, done. Remember, they can be violent with knives, clubs, even fists, etc., so it isn’t just about guns – you have to put all of them in jail, no trial, no beating around the bush. Just lock them up! So if you’ll step up to the post of Czar of Whacky, Violent People, I’ll do my part and step up to the post of Czar of Gangbangers and Homies.

That should knock out the majority of the remaining murders in the country.

I guess it does leave out the tiny fraction of murders committed by Islamic terrorists, such as the shooting in the Miami airport, but I bet if we ask around, we’ll find someone who can identify those folks, on sight, and immediately put them all in prison for good. ‘Czar of psychotic, suicidal jihadists.’ Just need to fill that post.

No doubt the three of us can cut down on violent crime in this country, in a jiffy. We’ll need a lot more prison guards, of course, but there will be plenty of out of work attorneys who can use a job, once all due process and presumption of innocence is eliminated. And maybe Chicago will finally be the mecca of peace and brotherly love that the gun control advocates dreamed of, decades ago, before the citizens were slaughtered by the thousands while completely defenseless.

On board with this proposal? I’m grateful you did think to mention how you can identify crazy, violent people on sight. Wouldn’t have occurred to me otherwise.
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  #107  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooknline View Post
Me thinks that some recent people have come to this board to argue and troll more than to learn.
Quite possible. We usually get a leftist gun control advocate or two prior to each election cycle, but this seems to be the first instance of getting one after. Maybe a different strategy? I don't know.

It is kinda fun to show how stupid and impractical their ideas are, for a while anyway. But eventually it wears thin.
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  #108  
Old 01-13-2017, 09:50 AM
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I have been through the Anchorage airport many times.
There is a good reason he didn't do it here...
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  #109  
Old 01-13-2017, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
I'm pro-gun, but I'm also pro-keeping them out of the wrong hands.
Sir, we on this board are all in support of keeping guns out of the hands of persons who should not have them. To not support such an idea is pure stupidity, as well as an invitation to dire circumstances as did occur in your own personal history. The Framers codified the God-given Freedom to own and use firearms responsibly. With that ownership comes the automatic burden that any illegal use carries with it the legal ramifications for such misuse. What has been subtracted from that original codification is that responsibility. Dingbat crazies can now commit heinous murders and escape responsibility because the perp's lawyer will make the case that 2016's Patrick Purdy or Adam Lanza "had a difficult childhood" and as such, should be sent to a Safe Zone where milk & cookies, Play-Doh and coloring books abound. The real culprit is the firearm; the supposed perp just happened to be holding one when it "went off" fifteen times. Tell you what... if I was in charge of Justice in this country I'd let the system do its thing and let guilt be found, if it may. Once guilt is unquestionably determined, I'd quickly find eight feet of rope and ten feet of open space under the thick branch of an old oak tree. "Mr. Roof, your table is waiting-- you racist batsard."
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  #110  
Old 01-14-2017, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
Actually, the commutations were not given to any felons who committed crimes that involved violence, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to the bash Obama no matter what crowd.
.....pillars of the community, like all the ones he released from Gitmo.
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  #111  
Old 01-14-2017, 04:56 AM
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Thumbs down No you could not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet Rico View Post
As I mentioned in another post, I've worked in a mental health facility. Even with my limited training (Associate Degree in Human Services), I could easily determine who posed a threat and who didn't. All schizophrenics are not the same.
What a crock of BS! I took some night classes too, that didn't make me Sigmund Freud. If that were REMOTELY TRUE multiple LEA's would be banging down your door to hire you as a profiler. DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB. "EASILY DETERMINE WHO POSED A THREAT", lol. RR you have some splainin to do.
Freud, Adler, Skinner etc couldn't do what you claim with any kind of repeatable accuracy. What was that community college anyway? Did finding pro gun beliefs on a gun forum come as a surprise to you? I guess your powers failed you on that one. You weren't trying out the metal hat by any chance were you?
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Last edited by nachogrande; 01-14-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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  #112  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:27 PM
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I just hope they put this shooter dude down quickly and swiftly.. none of this 20 year waiting period junk!
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  #113  
Old 01-14-2017, 08:15 PM
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You guys clearly don't understand the "gun control math" that the left brings onto the forum. So let me help out...

Without question, the left cares about lives lost to nutty people who shouldn't have had guns in the first place (follow along, don't spit up all over your keyboard)... right? I mean, they care. Crocodile tears and all!

Heck I even found on the Washington Post web site a memorial... for the poor, unfortunate souls who tragically lost their lives due to mass shootings. And make no mistake... it is tragic that those people lost their lives. At least I think so.

884. Since..... 1967. Huh?

Yup. 18 per year, on average. Depends on who does the counting... but it is probably a sure thing that the Washington Post didn't undercount the victims.

The leftist gun control advocates cry over this. They really do! Just watch them on TV....

But... there is just a tiny fly in the ointment. What's that, you say, between wiping the tears and blowing your nose? Er.... it turns out.... there are quite a lot of other preventable causes of death in a given year. I found most of this on the CDC web site, exceptions as noted. And yeah I listed heart disease, stroke, and diabetes as those are mostly knife, fork, and spoon inflicted diseases... aided and abetted by our federal farm policy. But I digress....

Annual, accidental or preventable deaths in the U.S.:
Heart disease ~600,000
accidents (including firearms) ~130,000. About 30,000 a year are automobiles.
stroke ~130,000
Adverse reaction to prescription drugs ~100,000+, various sources
diabetes ~ 75,000
drug overdose, including prescription painkillers ~47,000
suicide (about half by firearms) ~40,000
Murder, all causes ~11,000-12,000 (FBI)
Drowning ~3,500
Bee stings ~100 / year
Lightning strike ~50 annually, per NOAA

Mass shooting - 884 victims from 1967 to the present - or about 18 per year (per the Washington Post).

18 per year, and we want to end due process for that, end medical privacy, let your doctor decide if your guns should be taken away by executive fiat? Gosh, those lives much be worth a lot more than the rest! Gee, what about the 1,000,000+ other people who died of accidental / preventable causes???? Even if you take out the heart disease, stroke, and diabetes, there's still hundreds of thousands of people dying from preventable/accidental causes. Oh and those lives are precious to the left, too.... right? Not so much as it turns out. Meh.... collective yawn from the gun control crowd.

You're more likely to die from a bee sting or lightning strike than a mass murderer, but well, who cares about those folks. Not the leftist gun control crowd! You're about 50 times more likely to die if you live in Chicago every year just from the ordinary thugs who thrive in that gun control paradise, than you are from a random mass shooting somewhere else in the country. 50 times safer - as long as you don't live in Chicago.

So, basically, the only lives that matter are the ones that end in mass shootings. A million or so other people.... screw 'em. That's the leftist gun control math for you.

At least until they find some other issue to blow out of proportion.

Got it? Test tomorrow, but like all 'new math,' you can just make up answers and still get a gold star. I really wonder if these people can do more than first grade math. Probably took a course in how to manage their feelings instead of basic addition/subtraction. I can't think of any other reason to be so oblivious... I mean, the gun control crowd wouldn't stoop so low as to emotionally manipulate people to get their way, would they? Nah....
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  #114  
Old 01-15-2017, 05:22 AM
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Geez, what happened to be nice and join in?
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  #115  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:13 AM
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Grizzer, wish it wasn't necessary to point out the foibles and follies and lies of the left on gun control.... but it is. Opened the sunday paper and of course there was an editorial reprinted from a Florida newspaper, beating the drum again on gun control all due to the incredibly low probability of being in an airport collecting your baggage, at the exact moment an islamic terrorist opens fire there. I don't know what that probability would be, but if you divide the number of people who were in that baggage area by the number of people who go through airports in a given year, it is startlingly low. Millionths of a percent, I'd guess. Edit: according to stats I found on a U.S. government site, nearly a billion people go through U.S. airports in a given year! A billion.... if there were 500 people in the baggage claim area (substitute any number you want), that comes out to 0.0000005 probability.

These people just won't quit. No matter how absurd or far-fetched or mathematically impossible their proposals are. You'd think they could figure out that 18 < a million or so, but apparently not. Heck, I've given up on statistics with that crowd. Gonna have to simplify it to 'greater than' or 'less than,' it seems.

Notice the people who chimed in the loudest about what a horrible problem it is, haven't responded?
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