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  #1  
Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Remington makes news again


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Remington settles major defective gun case| Latest News Videos | Fox News
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2017, 11:56 AM
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Is there an estimate on the amount of money this will cost Remington?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:02 PM
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Well, good. Now the sheep who have been bleating for so long can shut their yaps. They've been sated, just like were those who whined and moaned so long about the possible health dangers of cigarettes that the government eventually took $245 billion from the big tobacco companies as funding for "smoking cessation" efforts that were to be aimed at people who either smoked already, or who might begin. Remington has submitted to legal intimidation, and has paid the whiners. The whiners can now go suck eggs...
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:06 PM
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And not one Remington rifle was shown in the video. Shows the ignorant intelligence of mass media.

Isn't this the same thing?

https://www.shootersforum.com/warnin...-approved.html

RJ
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:33 PM
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I'm hoping Remington turns the corner and get's back to the quality of old!

Jim


The AV8R's
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2017, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by boandrv7a View Post
I'm hoping Remington turns the corner and get's back to the quality of old!

Jim


The AV8R's
Like your V tail Bo. I have 1000 plus hours in them. Looks like maybe P model. Hard to tell from the small picture and the N number is mirror reversed.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:39 AM
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Like your V tail Bo. I have 1000 plus hours in them. Looks like maybe P model. Hard to tell from the small picture and the N number is mirror reversed.
Thanks! I love the airplane! Fly's like a dream.

It's actually a 1977 V35B. I've re-done (or had it re-done) all of the paint and avionics. It's a 2,300 hour bird.

Some videos on it here: The AV8R's

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  #8  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:40 AM
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Faulty Trigger or faulty something else?

Don't think so...Over the years I have had two accidental discharges related to Bubba modified Remington factory triggers The first was on a newly acquired used 40X (not a 2 oz. trigger). Another accidental discharge happened with a "lightened trigger" in a 700 Varmint Special. That rifle was owned by another shooter. My second personal experience was a used XP 100 that went off aimed down range when the bolt was closed. Another Bubba trigger. Now these event were Remington's fault? Could a deep pocket and ambulance chasers be in this dance?
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Last edited by William A. Reed; 03-18-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:40 AM
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You are describing issues that Remington has/had no control over William. Is related to what Remington DID have control over ONLY because it involves the same trigger design.
Unaltered triggers (as issued by Remington) have failed.
Remington would prefer (follow the money), that we just overlook that little detail.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
You are describing issues that Remington has/had no control over William. Is related to what Remington DID have control over ONLY because it involves the same trigger design.
Unaltered triggers (as issued by Remington) have failed.
Remington would prefer (follow the money), that we just overlook that little detail.
Don't bother, this is the anti-tort, Remington/insert company here is could never be at fault thread.
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2017, 06:59 AM
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Remington has had faulty triggers leave the factory. The design of the Walker trigger is faulty. In addition to that, there is always the possibility that people will mess with things they shouldn't. But that doesn't change the fact it has a design flaw.

I had a Ruger 77 that the previous owner had adjusted too light - he told me about his 'testing' of his adjustments (it wasn't the first gun he had go off after one of his trigger jobs). But the 77 trigger, does not have the extra loose piece in it that the Walker trigger does. After I increased the sear engagement, the problem went away on the 77.

The Walker trigger, I'm just going to replace on my 700. Other than disassembling the Walker trigger, epoxying the connector to the rest of the trigger, and regrinding the sear angle, there isn't any 'fixing' it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:09 AM
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Dear Dr. Phil, I had an AD by a pre '64 M70 in my truck, should I sue Winchester because it was human error?

How my wife can stand to watch that nincowpoop is baffling beyond gobsmacked.

It seems that Remington's attempt to fix the problem has not been the best, (faulty screw glue on the XMP) but they can't/shouldn't be held liable for every accidental discharge since the dawn of time either. Auto makers across the globe have been getting away with it since the inception of the motor car. Like holding Trojan responsible for your girlfriend getting pregnant because you forgot to wear one, like hitting your thumb with a hammer while hanging a picture for 't missus (you can't blame 't missus) like stubbing your toe on the corner of the kitchen counter on your way to get a drink in the dark (I blame Edison)

I could go on.

RJ
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:21 AM
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RJ--- When a home gunsmith 'adjust' a Walker trigger and it fails, we blame the 'smith for doing it wrong.
The Walker trigger can 'adjust' itself at ANY time and then resume normal operation. For that we blame the engineer that designed an 'uncertain' trigger mechanism AND the company that continued to use it for 60 years after THAT engineer told them what the error was AND how to correct it.

The Walker trigger is DEFECTIVE in DESIGN and is made worse by manufacturing mistakes and amateur adjustments.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:55 AM
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Faulty triggers...

If a flaw was concealed it is inexcusable. My point, again, was that many trigger failures had to do with tampering. Seems like I'm the only person in America who feels that tampering is a major issue in this dance. This trigger issue has been around for years. Owner error: the index and middle finger have been responsible for a ton of unintentional discharges.

Years ago I was involved with a customer's blown-up Remington 742BDL. There was a thorough investigation by the company I was told. It was found a handload was involved. Mr. Walker himself called to report the outcome of the investigation. Later we were doing some repairs hoping to do Remington repairs on regular basis. The factory rep came by and spoke of the need for safety explaining the the company had been sued over a faulty Model 11 shotgun-that's right a Model 11.

All this flunks the smell test. There is a disconnect. Remington would do back flips over a blown up rifle or an antique shotgun but do nothing on these faulty triggers. I wonder how many of the faulty Remington's have been owned or owned now by members of this forum. Wonder if the folks found those trigger at lease satisfactory or usable? I have two Remington rifles with no safety at all. How about that?

Last edited by William A. Reed; 03-17-2017 at 08:08 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:11 AM
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ALL the pertinent Remington internal documents that fully and forever more PROVES how Remington knew of the MANY design problems and what and how they decided to NOT fix them and to NOT admit they were there, are availble for download to anybody that wants them. They show that Remington knew of the Walker and the Common Fire Control defects less than a year after they were invented and even discussed a recall in the '70s. They instead contracted with a legal PR firm to create the "Ten Commandments of Gun Safety".

"Y'all be careful out there"

The problem is that the 'Remington documents' archive is SO big and the evidence of wrong doing is so scattered among them it takes somebody that WANTS to know to actually read what is available and understand it. It is also SO egregious that most don't WANT to know.

My book is a start to understanding the totality of the 'problem' shooters are facing. You'll have to read between the lines to see WHY we have the problem and WHO is responsible for it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:23 AM
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JBelk: I'm NOT saying the Walker trigger or Remington aren't at fault, just that lapses in human judgement may be as much or more at fault than Remington at this point (some 75 years later).

Lumping all amateur gunsmiths into the same kettle by an "expert" gunsmith that spouts false automotive engine knowledge is akin to me telling YOUR missus how to load the dishwasher or fold towels.

When there was a recall on your (insert make and model here) and the nearest dealer is 250 miles away and your wife needs the car to get to (insert where ever she pleases here) would you take it in ASAP? Would you tell her "It ain't broke yit so it probbly ain't a gonna". How many of those cases do we hear about on the 6 o'clock news. NONE!! Because it's STILL (insert auto manufacturer here) fault for building such a cheap POS in the first place.

Human judgement being the flawless perspective that it is has IMO much more to do with this problem NOW than just the higher-ups at Remington using the Walker trigger for, well , forever. Is Daisy at fault for the wee pin holes that so mysteriously showed up in the very top windows of the barn or General Motors for the broken tail light on Dad's Buick after your late date with Suzie?

I could go on . . . .

RJ
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:35 AM
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You are thinking about it right William. A person (or company) need to take responsibility for what they do. In your examples above (post #8), Bubba IS responsible for mal-adjusting the triggers to unsafe condition. Needs to "face the music", so we agree there.
The same principle applies to Remington. They learned of the problem early enough to correct it with minimal hassle/expense/loss of life. They chose to ignore it for financial gain.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:43 AM
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They instead contracted with a legal PR firm to create "Ten Commandments of Gun Safety".
Didn't the NRA come up with that?

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Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
"Y'all be careful out there"
Is not one of the ten commandments from God OR the NRA. In a good old google search for "The Ten Commandments of Gun Safety" I was rewarded with several versions of "The Big Ten" but always in there was "Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction" and "Only point the firearm at what you intend to shoot" and in 90% was the phrase "Don't trust your weapon's safety" one of the latter was in the Army Weapons Training Manual from 1941.

RJ
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:52 AM
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I think "Ten Commandments of Gun Safety" was Sarah Brady?

Purdy certain "Y'll be careful out there" was the old TV show Hill Street Blues.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:57 AM
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RJ--- It is the JURY that is assigned the task of finding what proportion of the loss was caused by the victim.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, created by Remington/Dupont and the other gun companies, hired a PR firm to write the TCOGS. I've got at least thirty different examples of it but it was the NSSF version that 'transferred' liability from the gun to the handler and it has been used extensively by Remington to defend a faulty firearm. Of course the 'laws' came from somewhere!! But they were then 'cautionary' and not 'reactionary' and designed to absolve legal liability. That has been the use since inception by Remington and there are pages and pages of memos, notes, letters and meeting minutes to show it. The name of the firm that wrote them with several examples and changes are in 'the documents.'

Remington Documents | Remington Rifle Trigger Defect

Autos are a bad example of 'recall'. Try airplanes, they're much more analogous. "Gravity' and 'springs' are the same. Auto recalls are only rarely 'dynamically dangerous' as is a gun (loaded) or airplane (flying).
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