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  #1  
Old 03-29-2008, 09:01 AM
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Lead poisoning


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Just came across this story. I don't think these links last long so I am going to copy some of the article here. I would love to know how much lead would be absorbed in the human body if you swallowed a 40 grain chunk of lead.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/...p55152xZhxieAA

Thousands of pounds of venison donated to food pantries this year has become a contentious gift in three states.
North Dakota health officials on Wednesday told food pantries in the state to throw out donated venison, saying it may have lead fragments.

Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck physician and hunter, alerted health officials after he conducted his own tests on venison using a CT scanner and found lead in 60 percent of 100 samples. The North Dakota Health Department confirmed the results on at least five samples of venison destined for food pantries.
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2008, 02:00 PM
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So 60% of deer hunters have been poisoned? Hmmm. Something's wrong with this picture. Actually, I think the raw metal is less dangerous than the oxides and other forms that can ionize easily in stomach acid. Pure lead used be used for some acid containment vessels. I know it will react with acetic acid, though. At least, it will at elevated temperatures.

Metallic mercury used to be given to treat constipation, and it didn't seem to kill anyone. Neither did wiping cuts with Mercurochrome. I think there's a lot of confusion about what forms of metal cause poisoning and what ones are safe. Having to spit out the odd bit of lead should not kill anyone. If people would stop using explosively fragmenting bullets and go with flat-nose cast solids, we just wouldn't be having this conversation.
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2008, 02:48 PM
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Well, I used to crimp split shot with my teeth and keep reloads for my pellet rifle under my tongue.

I did not post this to make people afraid of lead poisioning; I saw it as ammunition for the anti-gun and and animal rights people.

I don't think this doctor is lying, I'm just a little puzzled about how the lead gets that dispersed through the meat. I suppose if the bullet was badly fragmented and then the whole carcass was ground.

I repeat the question; how much lead would be absorbed if you swallowed a bullet? It is my understanding that it is dangerous to birds because it will stay in the crop until it is finally ground up. I would assume a hunk of lead would pass through the human body in a day or two.
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  #4  
Old 03-29-2008, 05:23 PM
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You can bet the folks in Kalifornie that have banned lead in the Condor areas will jump on this with both feet. Those in Arizona may not be far behind.
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2008, 05:27 PM
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Sounds to me like an anti-gun lawyer got to the food bank and politicos, screaming 'liability' issues.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:01 AM
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I also wonder where the hundered samples came from. All from one deer, or the wound cavity of say 100 deer.
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdub View Post
You can bet the folks in Kalifornie that have banned lead in the Condor areas will jump on this with both feet. Those in Arizona may not be far behind.
IMO, Arizonians and those in about forty-five other states could not be that stupid.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:38 AM
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I bet a deer killed with a rock will test positive for trace amounts of most anything you test for, including lead. We are not going to live forever to start with, and most of these trace amounts of things such as lead would take a couple hundred years, or more to kill you. We have a society of cry babies who are afraid to breathe the air or drink the water. I to have crimped many a split shot with my teeth, back when i had teeth.

I agree that this will just be more fuel for the misinformed masses to harp on guns with. There are countless scare tactics used by many groups to manipulte the bleeding heart segment of our society, and this will be but another. If venison would hurt you my family would have died long before old age killed the majority of them. The lead paint is a fine example. I played with toys painted with lead paint, lived in houses painted with lead paint, as did most anyone more than 30 years old. It hasn't killed anyone that I am aware of. We simply can not, and will not live forever regardless of how many things we outlaw.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2008, 04:15 PM
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I've yet to figure out how a "minority" of "environmental wackos" are able to dictate wildlife and government policy on everything from "global warming", "global cooling", "gene mutation" from radiation, and the "AIDS epidemic?" Is it because we choose to listen to them and their "doctored" stats? They are guilty of using "overblown" estimates that use small "test samples" that most times yeild an accuracy of less than 10% (many as high as 30%). In addition to questioning their data, we should be questioning their motivation. If they really had to use scientific proof, rather than media "scare tactics" we might still have DDT (I know most parts of Africa wish they did); we might have an effect on poverty in 3rd world countries where we now hand out condoms; and provide sanitation to those whose countries "infrastructor" is incapable of rendering. When the discussion goes from "media hyp" to government program, we should take notice and send a message to our politicians - "enough is enough"! (It might be time to buy more Beartooth bullets before another law goes into effect.)
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2008, 05:23 PM
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news media validity?

After what I've seen in the past from the news media, I feel compelled to ask if a "Dr. Cornatzer who is a hunter" even exists. This claim is just too good to be true for our enemies. I reminds me of the peta and greenpeace radicals who shoot up rural road signs and livestock every hunting season to give us a black eye in the publics view.
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  #11  
Old 03-31-2008, 11:04 AM
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This would appear to be an uncommon method of lead poisoning. This is a related medical article, see the bibliography at the end for other cases.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1278491
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2008, 02:13 PM
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Thanks for the article, tibbee. I sure would have thought a buckshot would have gone out the pooper in short order.

That woman must not chew her food very well if she didn't notice a 1/4" ball.
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2008, 03:12 PM
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That's an interesting one. I hadn't thought about the possible pocketing of lead in diverticula or maybe even smaller pieces in the appendix? Can't be too common and brings to mind mom's admonitions to a: chew my food, and or b: to stop wolfing my food. Mom knew best, it seems.

What is more interesting to me is the speed of recovery without chelation therapy or being sweated. (Though maybe that's incorrect; in Sweden she might have enjoyed a sauna?) In any case, again, it doesn't seem like an adult is all that easily damaged, even by all that exposure. A child with a developing brain could well be another story. I just don't know?
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Last edited by unclenick; 03-31-2008 at 03:15 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:10 AM
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I've eaten the odd piece of shot or two over the years, and had a blood analysis done a few years back for other reasons. Although there were measureable levels of lead, it wouldn't have killed me, and there was other stuff that came out of fillings and whatnot that had built up worse.

Best guess is a sloppy butchering job ground up a big pile all at once, and scattered the remains of a very few bullets into a large sample.

It's probably less hazardous to ingest a bit of lead, than to starve to death.
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:42 AM
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Children's intestinal absorption of lead is much more efficient than an adult's and their nervous system is more more susceptible to injury. There have been rare cases of acute lead intoxication and death but usually it is a slow process. I think that the state is over reacting in this case based on a report that is not yet substantiated by reviewed studies, but I can understand the reaction in light of today's legal climate. It is a good reminder for all of us hunters to insure that we properly care for our game meat and avoid such problems. I trust my game meat more than some store bought meat (remember the millions of pounds of beef recalled this year?).
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:22 PM
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Question Cooper bullets?

The article says this:
Hunters have alternatives to lead, he said. "I'm a big hunter. I've already purchased four boxes of copper bullets to next year," by Cornatzer.
He's hunter that doctors also.

Are there bullets made of 100% copper now?
I'm serious, I've never heard of them. Copper jackets yes, completely copper?

Last edited by okietool; 04-01-2008 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Speeling :)
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:28 PM
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Barnes is probably the best know maker of all-copper bullets. Check their web site. There are also bronze bullets. I have some 165 grain .308 bronze ones from Barnes, but they are old and I don't think the same model is made any longer. Hornady offers a 500 grain .458 solid for African game. Search and you shall find.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:36 PM
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I think this is a contrived issue made up as a pretext for something else. The likes of the PETA trash, eco-nazis and animal rightists don't care for the idea that hunters giving away game to food banks create a lot of positive publicity for hunters.

So what do emotionally driven, intellectually bankrupt people do when they can't win on logic and facts? They make up lies.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2008, 08:30 PM
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Lead toxicity, some people are somewhat paranoid about the substance, to say the least. When I was about kindergarten age in the 1960s, a couple of older boys called me over to a neighboring house. They were chewing on the flakes of paint that came off the house, told me they were just like potato chips. Wasn't like any potato chip I'd every had and one flake was enough for me, but these kids came from a family of 20 that probably seldom got a potato chip and they were munching away! Neither of the two died or got apparently sick, but later in life one of them wound up with a plastic throat, probably more attributable to smoking than to the lead paint!
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsenshooter View Post
Lead toxicity, some people are somewhat paranoid about the substance, to say the least. When I was about kindergarten age in the 1960s, a couple of older boys called me over to a neighboring house. They were chewing on the flakes of paint that came off the house, told me they were just like potato chips. Wasn't like any potato chip I'd every had and one flake was enough for me, but these kids came from a family of 20 that probably seldom got a potato chip and they were munching away! Neither of the two died or got apparently sick, but later in life one of them wound up with a plastic throat, probably more attributable to smoking than to the lead paint!
Eating paint chips because they were the only "chips" they could get? I think that's about the most tragic story I ever heard. :\ There's times when I think stuff like foodstamps aren't all bad, and this is one of them.
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