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  #21  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:55 PM
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As long as the break is free of any oil soaked wood I would use the wood glue.I've used Tite-Bond at work joining trim together,very strong stuff just try tearing it apart sometime.Elmers makes an interior/exterior grade that is stainable.That would be my first choice.
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  #22  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:05 PM
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I used the aliphatic resin. Claims to be water resistent. Looks good.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:23 AM
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I'm glad you got it done, Unclepaddy. This takes care of this thread, but for those looking to repair their stocks and still aren;t sure which is the best glue, there's this:

Virtually ANY glue will join wood and do the job. Some are better than others, hence the reason for this thread. You have yellow and white glues, polyurethane glues (Gorilla glue), epoxies, Accraglass (which I suspect is an epoxy resin [with fiber additives]), cyanoacrylates (super glues), and hide glues. ALL of those mentioned would repair a broken stock, yes...even the super glues.

Water resistance is nice but not necessary. For example, Titebond has been mentioned. It's a yellow aliphatic resin, the same as any other yellow glue on the market (Elmers, Franklin, etc). Fix your stock, let it cure, then stand it on-end soaking in the bathtub for three days. It's not coming apart. hehehe But.....how much water resistance do we need for a gun stock? If we drop our Remington pump in the lake for a week, and forgot to use a waterproof glue, and the stock breaks again, we've got bigger problems than stock repair. What we're talking here is resistance......water resistance.....not proofing. Got a little rain or snow on your favorite Ruger rifle? You used the correct glue for repair - a yellow glue.

Titebond II (and the newer Titebond III) have a much greater water resistance than regular aliphatic resin glue. Now, you would use that type of glue if you were building some teak (or oak, or cedar, or....) patio chairs that were expected to sit out in the weather throughout the seasons. And...while either glue will work on a rifle stock, it is wholly uneccessary. But if you knew, for example, that when hunting with one particular rifle, it was going to get rained and snowed on every time, and that dampness would sit on the rifle for hours on end until you got home and could wipe it dry.....then you would want a more resistant resin like Titebond 2 or 3. Most rifles wouldn;t fall into this category, no matter where you were hunting, but maybe a few might.

Epoxies will work fine for a wood repair, but again, they're uneccessary. Plus, they're less likely to last. How is that, when we know epxoy glues are truly super adhesives? Well, epoxy dries to a hard, brittle cure. Yes, they have incorporated in them some toughness - some elasticity, but at their core they're brittle. And waterproof...no water will penetrate them. But when we're gluing wood, we need the fibers to join in a cellular fashion. This is where the aliphatic resins shine, and this is why they're used in woodworking. As wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity, the woods fibers (inside the glued joint) must be able to act accordingly. Yellow and white glues (and animal hide glues - very good!) allow this to occur, while still keeping the fibers joined at the cellular level. Now, I didn;t write the book on this - I'm too much of a layman for that, I'm just repeating what I've learned and experienced. A guy can go and read and learn about different glues and their properties.

Why not use a heated, or even liquid, hide glue? They're good and strong, so why not? Well, heated hide glues are used so a joint can be taken apart later, if necessary. Yes, they're very strong, but they're not ideal for several reasons. We don't all have access to a glue pot or the animal glue. It takes too much time and effort to setup just for a simple repair. And we don;t ever want to take the joint apart. And liquid hide glues, while bottled for convenient use, don;t offer the same strength and benefit of yellow glue, though they are good for a quick, simple repair on other wood projects. Nope. Not for rifle stocks.

Anyway, the summary is: if a guy is making or fixing a wood rifle stock, any glue can be used. The most ideal glue for wood remains yellow or white glue. If the rifle is to be laid against the woodpile and remain there throughout the seasons , then a guy might want to use T-bond II or III. Personally, I would recommend a regular yellow glue, and to store the rifle indoors

Just a thought........
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Last edited by StretchNM; 09-15-2011 at 10:46 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:35 PM
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Stretch, that's a good summary. Thanks a bunch.
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2011, 03:07 PM
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One thing about the water resistance of glue is that we put a finish over our wood stocks because we don't want water getting into the wood fiber, because wood fiber and water don't work out well in the longevity department. So why is it so important for the glue to be water-resistant when the very thing you are gluing isn't? Might be a long-shot issue if you didn't repair the finish over the glue joint, but that's about it.
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2011, 03:08 PM
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Many thanks for the input of all, and especially Stretch.
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2011, 07:05 PM
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Unclepaddy, I think the issue that was raised was concerning water solubility. Now, the glues we've spoken about are not necessarily water soluble in the context we're talking about, That is, water doesn't cause them to dissolve or release their bond unless immersed in it for considerable time. We don;t expect that in a rifle stock, and water on the surface of the wood surely isn;t going to affect the glue in the joint any more than the surrounding wood(bringing to point your mention of repairing the finish over the stock repair).

I can;t always help with rifles, because I haven;t half the experience of most in here, but wood and glues I have a little insight on, if nothing else. So if it helped you, you're welcome!
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  #28  
Old 11-12-2015, 12:13 PM
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Lorenz Musket Stock

Hi,

I need to repair a complete break in the wood stock of my Lorenz 1854 model musket made in 1860. The jagged edges of the break finger back together well. The break goes thru a bolt hole that joins the left side metal S plate to the right side hammer lock plate. What glue and what steps will give the most strength? Thanks.

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  #29  
Old 11-12-2015, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post
Brownells Accra-glass , the liquid type, not the jel. If the piece is thick enough, drill a few 1/8" or 3/16" holes in both where they will not be seen.
It's ACRAGLAS

Always have the big bottles it here. I've been helping a friend with some dry rot on his porch, works really nicely.
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by StretchNM View Post
Virtually ANY glue will join wood and do the job. Some are better than others, hence the reason for this thread. You have yellow and white glues, polyurethane glues (Gorilla glue), epoxies, Accraglass (which I suspect is an epoxy resin [with fiber additives])

Yes I know this is an old thread, but I will step in here:


ACRAGLAS is epoxy, the "Flux" or fiberglass fibers you use with it are not really needed but they do help make the epoxy flow where you want it better except into tiny little holes.

Quote:
Epoxies will work fine for a wood repair, but again, they're uneccessary. Plus, they're less likely to last. How is that, when we know epxoy glues are truly super adhesives? Well, epoxy dries to a hard, brittle cure. Yes, they have incorporated in them some toughness - some elasticity, but at their core they're brittle. And waterproof...no water will penetrate them. But when we're gluing wood, we need the fibers to join in a cellular fashion.
Not doing this to argue, but I've been using ACRAGLAS since the mid 70s. ACRAGLAS will soak into the wood basically permeating it. I learned that first time I used it to bed something into a Walnut stock. 3 years ago I needed a quick and dirty silt trap and I laminated some birch 1Xs with ACRGLAS. where the ACRAGLAS wasn't I used Urethane. three years later that quick and dirty silk trap is still good. This year I'm helping a friend deal with some mild dry rot on his porch. First thing you'll notice is how much the wood will soak in. Wood is actually stronger now.

Worst thing I've fixed in recent history with ACRAGLAS was an 03A3 stock that was in bad shape because someone had used way to much Linseed oil. Dealt with the oil, had to deal with bad cracks on both sides of the receiver area, but it came out nice and the stock is holding up for the owner. Just have to understand how to use it.

Mike remind me, I'll be redoing an article and I'll post it.
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  #31  
Old 11-12-2015, 09:08 PM
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Use Johnson's Workbench Waxilit 22-30P anywhere you don't want squeeze out.

Paste wax will work, but may interfere with the finish.
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  #32  
Old 11-13-2015, 03:11 AM
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I'm with StretchNM, while some epoxies might give a stronger bond, you can almost be guaranteed to have a glue line in the repair. Wet both sides to be joined with Titebond will be more than strong enough, and if you follow StretchNM's instructions, and pay careful attention to fitting the piece back in and get a tight clamp on it, it will more than strong enough and a good chance an almost invisible repair.

I also prefer to cover the whole stock with masking tape over wax. If I end up refinishing it to completely hide the repair, get the tape off is easier than the wax.

Last edited by BKeith; 11-13-2015 at 03:16 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2015, 03:57 AM
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as a voodvorker me hole life elmers or tight bond works great and does come in exterior,,clamp is key.wipe off excess glue 'cause will get into grains of wood and will impede the surface finish if no clamps can use blue tape to hold in place
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  #34  
Old 11-13-2015, 04:41 AM
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God, no. Don't wipe the excess glue off.

Use the Waxilit on the wood where you don't want glue, glue it up, wait until the glue squeeze out sets, and it will peel right off. It will leave no trace that it was ever there.

That's what Waxilit is for. Waxilit has tape beat hands down, the main difference is that Waxilit works.

Wiping fresh glue off a finished piece of wood leaves jackass tracks, and makes it look like it was glued by a gorilla with glue on both hands and questionable intentions.
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  #35  
Old 11-13-2015, 05:45 AM
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I have repaired many stocks. I rarely use carpenter's glue but when I do it is TiteBond 3 not TB2. More water resistant. I prefer epoxy or for cracks, a good cyanocryolate, esp when gluing a finished stock and not wanting to refinish it if possible. For the OP's situation, Titebond 3 does sound like a good choice but any of the three would do the job perfectly if done properly.
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  #36  
Old 11-13-2015, 05:48 AM
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A bit of an old thread

Gun stocks will continue to break however. Like painting, in gluing much has to do with the prep work. The prep may be more important than the type of glue. A pin/dowel or biscuit will increase shearing strength if feasible. A marine mechanic & very good shade tree gun "Bubba" turned me onto coating wood stocks with west system marine epoxy & an automotive clear coat finish buffed from a matte finish to a high gloss (your choice). This will make your wood stocks finish harder virtually water proof (if ALL areas are covered), stronger & more scratch resistant. I like wood & blued guns but seem to pick up more scratches now then when young, many just taking the rifle in/out of a crowded safe. Lining my safe with those brightly colored lock together closed cell foam mats (found at home depot or loews)& painting the inside with a white rhino liner type paint decreases scratches & makes seeing things in the back easier.
Climbing over/under old/rusty gates & barbed wire has become more difficult in the last 40 years or so. I have done this to my 2 main hunting/target rifles around 2006 and have not had any clouding or yellowing issues, but I tend to try and avoid direct sunlight as much as possible, YMMV.
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  #37  
Old 11-13-2015, 09:11 AM
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I can't argue a man's choice of adhesive for gluing a rifle stock together, especially if he's had good experiences. And.... I expect nothing less than a good experience with "acraglass" or any other epoxy - I even admitted in earlier posts that any glue will work. My ranking of glues is only to state which is the optimum glue to use, not the only one to use.

Again, epoxies are great. When I make scales for knives, I always use epoxy, because I'm bonding two dissimilar materials. But, I wouldn't use acra-glass (epoxy w/fiber) for wood stock repair just as I wouldn't use Titebond (an aliphatic resin) for rifle and action bedding. It isn't that the epoxy won't work, it's just that it's not the optimum glue for the repair.

The fiberglass in "acra-glass" is not so the epoxy will flow, but rather to lengthen and increase the bonding area with fiber.
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Last edited by StretchNM; 11-13-2015 at 09:14 AM.
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  #38  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by StretchNM View Post
I can't argue a man's choice of adhesive for gluing a rifle stock together, especially if he's had good experiences. And.... I expect nothing less than a good experience with "acraglass" or any other epoxy - I even admitted in earlier posts that any glue will work. My ranking of glues is only to state which is the optimum glue to use, not the only one to use.

Again, epoxies are great. When I make scales for knives, I always use epoxy, because I'm bonding two dissimilar materials. But, I wouldn't use acra-glass (epoxy w/fiber) for wood stock repair just as I wouldn't use Titebond (an aliphatic resin) for rifle and action bedding. It isn't that the epoxy won't work, it's just that it's not the optimum glue for the repair.

The fiberglass in "acra-glass" is not so the epoxy will flow, but rather to lengthen and increase the bonding area with fiber.
1) ACRAGLAS
2) the "flux" has little to do with bonding area. I've tested it with flux and without and I've written for Brownells about the things you can do with it with and without Flux.
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2015, 02:41 AM
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Doesn't have anything to do with a chip that fits well.
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  #40  
Old 11-14-2015, 06:56 AM
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I like glue that acts just like the wood. Stretch is right-- The white and yellow wood glues are the very best, next to hot hide glue which is a PITA and not needed. (Musical instruments are put together with hide glue and that's why Willie's guitar has a 70 year old front but the rest is 'new'.)

An epoxy joint is a stress riser and many times a stock will split again just outside the glue joint. I use epoxy on end grain (foreend tips and grip caps) but TiteBond everywhere else, even laminated stocks. Tite Bond IS water soluble when it's wet. It wipes up without leaving 'tracks' or residue even in raw wood.

For finished stocks with splits, I drill a #30 hole lengthwise the split, fill with glue, then force an 1/8 section of wood dowel into the hole. It will hydraulically force glue into all the crack but the dowel is smaller than the hole by .003" so the stock can be clamped, wrapped with rubber and allowed to dry. A fresh crack repaired in this way can actually be invisible, but usually a gunsmith is handed a stock with two kinds of epoxy smeared on it and the crack is full of Duco cement. They're NEVER easy!!
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