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  #1  
Old 03-19-2017, 12:59 PM
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9mm-40sw


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I continue to see agencies switching from 40 back to the 9 . Is it going to take another Afghanistan or Miami for everyone to understand that energy matters . I love speed ,but give me energy with it . What say you ?
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2017, 02:03 PM
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Me? Shoot what you like and can handle. I see tons of rifle shooters claim a .308 is easier to shoot than a .300 mag, but you can't prove it by me.

I like the .40 myself, an excellent combination of power and carry-ability in a smaller gun.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2017, 02:55 PM
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The odds are, the vast majority of us will never have to use a firearm against another human being. As such, I buy what I like to shoot. As far as every day carry, I carry my little pocket .380. If you don't think it will kill you, stand 10 yards from me and take a shot from it.
BTW, I own handguns in .22lr, .380, 9mm, .357 Magnum and 45 acp, I like shooting all of them and can shoot all of them proficiently.

My thought is, I would rather have a lousy shooter shooting at me with .40 S&W or .45 ACP, than a good shooter shooting at me with a .380. I will take shot placement over size any day of the week.
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Last edited by rcairflr; 03-19-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-19-2017, 05:28 PM
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I consider 9mm the minimun
But if you pick the 40 S&W based on power alone,
Then why stop there.
That road will take you to the 460 Rowland
As in most things
Personal choice
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:37 AM
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I am not a fan of the .40 S&W.

I am looking at a comparison of the BB 9mm+P 124 grain at 1225'/second (413 ft-lb. energy) and a 40 S&W 180 grain at 1015'/second (412 ft-lb. energy). The energy is virtually IDENTICAL! By comparison, a 45 ACP 230 grain pill going 916'/second generates a whopping 429 ft-lbs of energy and that's not a big difference.

So, what I say in response to your post is that energy by itself is a piss poor indicator of lethality. While it is an important factor, it isn't necessarily a good indicator. But let's look at MOMENTUM.

9mm: 21.7 lb-ft/sec.
40 S&W: 26.1 lb-ft/sec.
45 ACP: 30.1 lb'ft/sec.

With momentum, it becomes clear which of these calibers might be better for self defense.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:39 AM
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I had a 9mm, now I have a 40S&W.

RJ
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:40 AM
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Energy matters very little in the decision here. As stated above, 9mm +P is right up there with ,40s&w and .45 auto energy levels. What .40 gives you is a slightly bigger and heavier bullet that matches standard 9mm velocities. It's going to penetrate a little better and make a slightly bigger hole. That's about it. Most all of my personal handguns are in .40, but I have a couple of 9mm's and .45's.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:13 PM
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I am not good at the numbers , really I'm not, could someone please show the difference +p 9 &+p40 . I am curious
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:22 PM
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Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo
155 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs.)

9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo
(+P+) 147 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,175 fps/M.E. 451 ft. lbs.)
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:35 PM
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There is not spec for +p .40 S&W because the cartridge is already about as hot as it can get. No doubt we've almost all seen the famous .40 cal Kabooms where the guns explode from a little too hot of a load.

A Speer factory loaded 9mm +p 124gr gold dot pushes at about 1200-1250fps with around 415ft/lbs.

A comparable load from the same manufacturer in .40 S&W pushes a 165gr gold dot at about 1150fps with around 480-490 ft/lbs energy.

Last edited by Trent12; 03-21-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:15 AM
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Two world wars and the Phillipine Inserrction told us that 45's stop men better than 38cal/9mm's.
Col. Jeff Cooper came to the conclusion that a 200gr flat nose, 40cal/10mm bullet, moving at 1200 fps worked even better than the 45.
On the other hand Wild Bill carried 36 cal. 1851 Colt Navy's firing round ball loads. Loads which had about the same amount of power as the modern 380. When asked how he won so many gun fights he said he was more willing to pull the trigger. The books say he shot his pistols every morning, cleaned, and reloaded them.
A sobering fact is more people are taken down with 22 rimfires than the total of all centerfires
9mm vs 40 cal, the defining factor in all this is how well you are able to shoot and hit your target. If you're not practicing you'll have a hard time defending yourself with any caliber.
A friend asked how I got to be a good shot with a pistol. I told him, 10,000 rnds (mostly 22rf) and I started to see improvement.
I carry a 9mm 3" 1911 with a good trigger. Arthritis in my hands stopped me from using my double action 40 cal Sig.

Last edited by Papaprimer; 03-21-2017 at 02:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent12 View Post
. . . No doubt we've almost all seen the famous .40 cal Kabooms where the guns implode from a little too hot of a load. . .
Trent, I think you meant explode, implode is when an external force destroys something internally e.g. the hull of the submarine imploded when water pressure crushed it's hull. Don't mean to be nit-picky but for someone working with guns and ammunition, you'll want to use the correct terminology.
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Last edited by Marshal Kane; 03-21-2017 at 08:42 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Kane View Post
Trent, I think you meant explode, implode is when an external force destroys something internally e.g. the hull of the submarine imploded when water pressure crushed it's hull. Don't mean to be nit-picky but for someone working with guns and ammunition, you'll want to use the correct terminology.
Sorry, it was autocorrect on my phone. You are correct. It is indeed explosion.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:46 AM
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'Nuff said.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
I am not a fan of the .40 S&W.

I am looking at a comparison of the BB 9mm+P 124 grain at 1225'/second (413 ft-lb. energy) and a 40 S&W 180 grain at 1015'/second (412 ft-lb. energy). The energy is virtually IDENTICAL! By comparison, a 45 ACP 230 grain pill going 916'/second generates a whopping 429 ft-lbs of energy and that's not a big difference.

So, what I say in response to your post is that energy by itself is a piss poor indicator of lethality. While it is an important factor, it isn't necessarily a good indicator. But let's look at MOMENTUM.

9mm: 21.7 lb-ft/sec.
40 S&W: 26.1 lb-ft/sec.
45 ACP: 30.1 lb'ft/sec.

With momentum, it becomes clear which of these calibers might be better for self defense.
180gr is not the optimum bullet weight for the 40S&W. Look at 155gr.
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:49 PM
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40 can have significant power advantages but you will need a good quality full sized gun to see it.

With small, compact guns the 9's have a better reliability record. There are more of them, they have been made longer, and the tapered 9mm case feeds better than the straight 40 case.

9's also hold more ammo and the ammo is less expensive.
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2017, 03:36 PM
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I've got all of them. I just got the SW M&P Full Size in .40 and find that I really like it although in a small package it would be a handful I think with full house loads.

With modern ammunition the 9mm is a viable self defense round that has nothing wrong with it.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2017, 04:10 PM
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I was born in 1939, and am still irritating the socially correct. I Had an aquaintance some years ago, do the following. We were side by side, at a bar counter. He put a .22 revolver to his temple, and pulled the trigger. He was dead before he hit the floor (no blood pool at the wound sight). Obviously, shot placement is important. I carry a .380, and consider myself shot placement capable. Not to agitate the Testosterone infused, I feel, as a college calculus professor was prone to say.
"You do the best that you can, with what you have".
Cheers, Jonathan
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:00 PM
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Both the .40 & the 9MM Are both excellent rounds for SD with the right Ammo in them.
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  #20  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:56 PM
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I'm partial to the .40 and I think it's a better defense round, all other things being equal. With that said, my conceal carry pistol is a XDS 9mm, and I trust it. With these small pistols, recoil is certainly a factor, and I don't think it's much of a sacrifice to carry the 9mm. It's still a very good round.

As Redtail and others said, both are good calibers.
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