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  #21  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:19 PM
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Before you make your final choice, I'd suggest that you rapidly fire 5 or 6 rounds of any caliber without hearing protection. When and if you are assaulted, you won't have time to put on you 'shooting ears'. Now try it with a .22. Notice any difference?
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:35 PM
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which gun for ccw

I have had a CCW permit for 14 years in NH.

I have carried a 9 mm (Ruger SR), a .44 Sp (Charter arms), a Sig 238 in .380, a Ruger in .45 (not for long) and a .45 from Springfield, XDM. The Springfield is a double stack with 13 rounds available. It is my go to carry now. Small, but easy to handle because the frame flexes and the extended mag. I like the trigger pull which makes it easy to get back on target. I would also get a small 'pocket pistol' for the time you want to just put something in your pocket and walk out the door. Bersa makes affordable accurate pistols as a backup. They also have a double stack .380 now- don't care what people think of a .380, 5-9 rounds in one place (no recoil) of self defense ammo is gonna work for close order needs.

I went from the mind set of defending against the terrorists to a gun that just kept people out of my face. Decide how you want to use your gun. A snubby revolver in .38 +P is something that will get a BGs attention before and after it hits them in the belly.

The key is to get used to not being self conscious of your carry - second nature is key to your second amendment exercise.

Sheepherder
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:29 PM
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First, don't fire any handgun without hearing protection unless absolutely necessary (in defense situation only). Take this from someone who has seriously abused his hearing over time.

Check to see if there is a gun shop with an indoor range that rents handguns in your area. If there is, it offers a perfect opportunity test various platforms and calibers. Usually, they will also offer various levels of instruction, which you would most likely find useful.

If not see if a local gun club has any one that would allow you to test various guns/calibers.

FWIW,

Paul
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:42 PM
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Makarov Rocks

With reliability highly important, how about the Makarov in in 9mm Makarov? Power is similar to the .380 aka 9mm Kurz

The big point is that the Makarov is almost unbreakable and is utterly reliable. It eats Hornady hollow points like Rosie O'Donnell at a dessert bar. FMJ practice ammo is pretty cheap too.

With its' SA/DA trigger and hammer block it's great for carrying hammer down on a loaded chamber.

Size is only slightly bigger than a Walther PPK and it's all steel. That's an advantage - you can't break or bend it if you pistol whip the guy.

My 2 cents - I know there are a bunch of good choices, I just love the solid reliability and accuracy of my Makarov.
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Last edited by Dr. Jeff; 01-04-2017 at 01:44 PM. Reason: lol - one more thought
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  #25  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:50 PM
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Some while back I read a great article on the use of mouse guns, subcaliber handguns defined as .25 or less if memory serves. What the author stated seemed common sensical or intuitively obvious to me but in essence he stated that there is nothing wrong with them for self defense as long as you understand their capability. He reminds us that there are man stoppers and man killers and that the small handguns are certainly killers but not necessarily stoppers. His brilliance was revealed in the simple directive to think of the mouse gun as a contact weapon, a knife that goes "bang". Since most hand gun fights occur in under 7 ft, one should be able to achieve a lethal CNS hit or significant circulatory strike with even a .22. Hopefully one can manage muzzle to skin contact on critically vulnerable points of the body. When assessing the threat, hopefully before the conflict happens, one will note the wearing of heavy garments or perhaps concealed body armor. Obviously one isn't going to attempt to penetrate either with a .22. A cursory study of the anatomy of the circulatory and nervous systems will reveal the readily available targets. I carry a .22WMR as my backup but because it's a true pocket piece, sometimes it becomes my primary.
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  #26  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:51 PM
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The problem with .22 rimfire ammo is that, sometimes, when the firing pin hits the rim nothing happens. And as you mention it is not a very powerful cartridge. As far as getting sued, ask an attorney as that sounds like a wive's tale.

A lot of people like the Shield and 9mm is a very good defensive caliber, so you're fine there, I think. It seems like your main concern is having two handguns when you really only need one. While I understand that mentality, there may be good reason to keep both. The rimfire is a great fun, low cost, low recoil practice round.

I have a 9mm for self defense but it is closer to a full size pistol. I also have a .22 rimfire that I would never part with as it is a hoot for plinking. What I don't know about the Shield is whether it is "fun" to shoot or whether due to its smaller size might not be as much fun to shoot for a long day at the range for practice.

Firearm collections tend to grow!
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randdmart View Post
Un-reliability
No stopping power
I can get sued due to injury if I shoot someone with a .22
First line is true, these are designed wrong and the extractors are problematic.

Second line is a tossup, you carry what you can shoot and a .22, while not having as much stopping power as a .45 ACP or .40 S&W round is still better than blowing kisses.

Third line is false. You will get sued if you shoot anyone with anything. If a lawsuit scares you, don't carry. Oh, and don't own a house, drive a car, hold a job or breath.

As to a carry option, the only answer is to try all that you can and decide for yourself what you are willing and able to carry and use. The do so.

Jeff
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2017, 05:49 PM
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If you like your P22 buy a PK380.

Remember, flat and light pistols are easier to carry and therefore don't get left at home like big heavy guns do.

Unless you encounter that one in a million criminal who practices at the range or is a martial arts expert a good guy with good situational awareness and any handgun will have the upper hand, you want to be the latter guy.

The Best defense is filmed here in Boulder of all places, absolutely the best tv show ever on using a gun for personal defense. Michael Janich is the guy to watch, one of the most dangerous men alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaC...dGS_474xXKIeB_
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2017, 06:31 PM
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Best advice so far: "Get some training"
Second best advice: Bersa thunder .380 in CC version...well made, good feel, accurate, adequate round and bang for your buck. Cheers.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2017, 07:21 PM
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I've been carrying concealed since I got my first LTC here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts when I turned 18. Yes, before 1998 we had good gun laws here and there was even an article written in a Boston newspaper about my town where over 80% of 18+ YO non-felons had their LTC. But now the state has gone to crap.

Now, some decades later with almost daily concealed carry I've learned what works for me and what doesn't. I'm a little over 6'-5" and weigh 250, so if I dress around it, even in the summer wearing just a T-shirt, I carry a larger pistol, as long as I use a good holster. I could never find a holster that did exactly what I wanted so I started mounding my own kydex holsters. They caught on and several of my friends, and even some Federal Air Marshals are using them because of their comfort and concealability. The holsters and mag pouches I make hug your body tight. This allows us to carry firearms as large as a Glock 19 or Sig P229 with 2 spare mags wearing nothing more than a T-shirt.

I don't find myself swapping between a duty weapon and a carry piece. My duty weapon is a P229 in .357 Sig, so that's what I carry concealed off duty.

Carrying a handgun is more than just getting a license. It should become a lifestyle, and if it does, it becomes effortless.
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2017, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randdmart View Post
I found a 9mm gun that I like (S & W Shield W/ Crimson Trace Laser Guard) but again thinking of it from a cost perspective I already own a handgun. I'm really not sure what to do here and why.

Rich
From a cost perspective, the laserguard can be purchased and mounted later, which would make the gun initially more affordable. In addition, you are going to want to train/practice without the laser. Not sure about your state, but in illinois, we can qualify with a 22, but you have to qualify with irons only, no noptics or lasers. After some practice, you may also find that you don't need or even want it. Not dinging lasers, I own a couple. Just saying...

One question, what do you like about the shield? It's a solid choice and caliber, just curious if you are going by looks and feel or if you have actually shot one. The shield puts you in the price range of a number of other guns including glock and sig. If your not looking to start collecting, rent and shoot or take a class that lets you try different guns before you commit. If you only plan on buying one, don't cheap out. Buy once, cry once. Once it's paid for, you will never complain about how you wish you had bought a lesser quality gun.
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2017, 03:34 AM
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Here's my 2 cents worth. It depends on the weather. A small lightweight .380 for warm shortsleeve weather, and a midsized 9 for colder weather. I'm sure you can figure this out.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2017, 03:50 AM
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Handguns are loud (duh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwcars View Post
Before you make your final choice, I'd suggest that you rapidly fire 5 or 6 rounds of any caliber without hearing protection. When and if you are assaulted, you won't have time to put on you 'shooting ears'. Now try it with a .22. Notice any difference?
I'm alive, BUT my ears are ringing (wah). That should not even be consideration. Survival is job one.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2017, 04:27 AM
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While I cannot attest to that, having never been in a shootout, I've read that when this happens, both noise and recoil become "tuned out' when fighting for one's life.

When I first started shooting, I didn't wear hearing protection, my rationale being that if I were ever in a shootout that I had better get used to the noise. BTW, at the time ranges were not so attuned to making the shooters wear eye and ear protection. Shooting without ear protection only eventually leads to tinnitus, which I have today. I would not advise anyone to shoot without hearing protection and only then if it was a case of self survival.
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob hardy View Post
Here's my 2 cents worth. It depends on the weather. A small lightweight .380 for warm shortsleeve weather, and a midsized 9 for colder weather. I'm sure you can figure this out.
And also a larger .40 or .45 when the weather is as it is in Denver today, with the needle on the thermometer trying to decide which side of zero to go to, and penetration thru more layers may be needed. Can't be satisfied with only 2 or 3 when an excuse for more can be found.
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  #36  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:30 AM
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3 different CCW guns

For the last few years I have had two different guns I carry. One is a S&W model 360 scandium snub nose revolver in .357. I can shoot either .357's or +P 38's from that little bundle of bang. I like it well because in it's desantis pocket holster, it fits nicely in the cargo pockets of all my pants. For summer, I normally carry a little KelTec .380 with shorts and a T-shirt wear.

Recently I have thought long and hard about all the domestic terrorist issues. We here in central Ohio have had several domestic terrorist atttacks in the last 12 months. One had a machete in a jewish resturant, the other a knife on the OSU campus. In both attacks many were wounded. I have added one more revolver to my CCW guns, and this one will get carried more often. It is a .44 special bulldog with the 3 inch barrel. A bigger caliber with good stopping power behind a 200 grain gold dot hollowpoint. This gun isn't so big to be uncomfortable as it carries easily IWB.

I've always been a revolver guy as that is my comfort zone and I've never had a reliability issue with any revolver in the last 40+ years. I felt this .44 would give me a little better edge if I needed to stop someone ****-bent of doing serious physical harm in a place where I was. I don't feel undergunned carrying the .44 Bulldog. Everyone will have a differing opinion as to what is the best CCW gun and ammo for them .... My wife prefers her Ruger LCR with Corbon 110 grain hollowpoints. Things are different today than there were 10 years ago, so I'm positively adapting to the change in tactics and weapons.
Ohio Rusty ><>
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2017, 06:47 AM
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I was taught to Stop the threat. a .22 will not stop it immediately, take a training course.. most qualified instructors will discourage you on anything smaller than a .380 acp.... Good Luck
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv S View Post
And also a larger .40 or .45 when the weather is as it is in Denver today, with the needle on the thermometer trying to decide which side of zero to go to, and penetration thru more layers may be needed. Can't be satisfied with only 2 or 3 when an excuse for more can be found.
You make a good point that most people don't consider. I too have winter and summer carry firearms. When I can put a jacket on I carry a midsize or even a full size pistol in .40 or .45. In the summer down here where it's common to be above 100 degrees, I have to limit myself to a double stack subcompact automatic in .40 S&W. It's usually a Glock 27 or an H&K p2000sk.

I've got some 9mm's but they are range toys and home defense pistols. I prefer to carry .40 S&W when I'm out and about.

Load heavier bullets when you live somewhere people will be wearing extra layers. You may need the extra penetration. A 147gr 9mm should work if you don't want to step up in caliber.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2017, 12:43 PM
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False!

Quote:
Originally Posted by glockman55 View Post
I was taught to Stop the threat. a .22 will not stop it immediately, take a training course.. most qualified instructors will discourage you on anything smaller than a .380 acp.... Good Luck
Maybe it will, maybe it won't, nothing is 100% certain with any caliber, THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES. Sure a 22 wouldn't be my first pick IF I had something else available, that wasn't too big/heavy for the time/place. Many people and animals have been killed quickly with 22's.
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  #40  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:59 PM
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My brother likes his Sig P320 in .40S&W. Wears it just about everywhere, 'cepting for where he works. No gubs allowed, there. The P320 is nice because you can change it into a 9mm by getting the smaller barrel. I think the chassis, slide and grip portion of the assembly are common between the .40 and the 9mm.
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