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  #41  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:41 PM
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The S&W Shield in 9mm would be a fine choice. Get some instruction.

The IWB holster from Andrews Custom Leather will make it disappear under an oversized T-shirt. The holster is almost as important as the pistol. Dont go cheap.

I use the CorBon 115 gr JHP load. Check the gel tests on Youtube. Whatever ammo you get, make sure it functions 100%. 9mm practice ammo is cheap and will help you maintain your skill.
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  #42  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:58 PM
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You will mot likely end up with several guns. My first carry gun was/is a Taurus 85 in 38 spl. Then came the NAA micro revolver in 22 Mag. When I can I'll even place a full sized 1911 under the shirt.

One of the factors that will guide you on the course to which gun(s) you choose is going to be the method of carry, if like me you'll try and reject a number of holsters and carry methods before you settle on three or four. Of course you'll keep trying other ways as time goes on too.
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  #43  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:49 AM
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I am currently considering what handgun to get as a CCW piece. My choices include a Ruger SP101 shrouded hammer model, the Kahr's all steel K9 9mm, and the Remington R51 9mm. In 380, I'd also consider Remington's RM380.
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2017, 06:11 AM
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44 auto mag:"...and, if properly used, it can remove the fingerprints".
On my other hand,millions of cattle have died from a single 22 LR bullet
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  #45  
Old 01-06-2017, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
I am currently considering what handgun to get as a CCW piece. My choices include a Ruger SP101 shrouded hammer model, the Kahr's all steel K9 9mm, and the Remington R51 9mm. In 380, I'd also consider Remington's RM380.
I'd personaly avoid the Remington's after their gigantic recall and flop on the R51. The Ruger and Khar are better choices by far...
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  #46  
Old 01-06-2017, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziptab View Post
. . . On my other hand,millions of cattle have died from a single 22 LR bullet
True, but there is no record of a cow being engaged in a gunfight. OTOH, the Mafia likes the .22 LR, put the unsuspecting victim in the front seat next to the driver to be shot in the head by someone in the back seat.
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  #47  
Old 01-06-2017, 07:08 AM
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My J-frame has no safety switch, magazine release or slide release to sort out.

When overcome by fear and adrenaline all I have to remember is Pull Trigger. Gun goes Bang. Not picky about ammo.

Me, I like .38 +P soft lead semi-wadcutter hollow points.

Would prefer a rifle but hard to conceal.
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  #48  
Old 01-06-2017, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesKelly View Post
My J-frame has no safety switch, magazine release or slide release to sort out.
My 637 never fails to fire if you remember to load it.
It's lighter than my P22, and costs less.
You can buy target loads with very modest noise and recoil for practice. (or load your own).
It works with Speer shot loads, or Buffalo Bore 38+P, and anything .38 in between.
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  #49  
Old 01-06-2017, 09:32 AM
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I would have two guns, one a full size duty weapon and a second smaller pocket pistol. Examples include a J frame 38 Spl or 357 Mag, scandium frame as the extra weight can limit carry options. A full size .357 Mag Revolver or 10mm auto would be my first two full size choices. Get good instruction and perfect your muscle memory of reloading, jam clearance and actual shooting under time pressure. Reload and compete if possible and attend all the training classes you can afford. 38 Spl in a revolver or 9mm in an autoloader would be my minimum choices. I like compact Glocks and full size Glock would be my choice as the longer magazines can be used in the shorter gripped gun.
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  #50  
Old 01-06-2017, 02:08 PM
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This has been a very interesting thread to read through. I made a post early and commented that there would be lots of opinions on this subject as well there should be.

A couple of personal observations on what I've read. Now, I'm not a LEO, nor am I a claimed "expert" on either handguns or self defense using a handgun. I was, however, a member of the military for a long time whose personal defense weapon in the military was a handgun. So I have at least a rudimentary understanding of the use of a handgun for self defense and carried such in more than one combat tour.

I saw the term "lifestyle" used as something one should consider as a CC holder. I see it a bit differently, thinking a person with a newly acquired permit should perhaps use a different "mindset" about how they might dress or act. To call it a lifestyle is a bit over the top for someone not in the "business" of LE, but rather simply someone wanting to protect themselves and theirs. Semantics, perhaps.

The second was the usage of the term "duty" weapon. Not sure how that fits for a person holding a Carry Permit, but I do see the idea of having more than one type/size making sense for folks who carry.

I determined early on that a SD handgun I carry and one I want for HD are not necessarily one and the same. My decision was, indeed, to use two very different guns for those two different jobs. I have two compact "carry" guns. I do not have a "duty" gun, but I do have a larger, higher capacity gun for HD and also to keep in my vehicle should that be desired.

Lots of smart folks here with lots of experience. There will be differences of opinions on many topics, rightly so. We should all try and understand, however, that the average citizens who get their Carry Permit do not do so with Law Enforcement as the reasoning to do so. They get it to protect their families and themselves. They have not taken an oath to "serve or protect" and any advice given might be given in that vein. To recommend that an average "Joe" become something he's not, nor needs or wants to be is not in anyone's best interests, IMHO.

To recommend the proper carry, proper handguns to carry and to practice to the point of having confidence in maintaining a high proficiency in SD is logical.
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  #51  
Old 01-06-2017, 03:30 PM
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For a person not used to shooting a great deal or carrying I always suggest a double action revolver. An example would be a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44sp or a good used SW Chiefs Special or Combat Masterpiece or even a Ruger SP101 357Mag. There are a number of very good ones out there with great stopping power.

If you insist on a semi auto then a double action would be high on my list as all you need to do is point and shoot without messing with anything. Kahr makes a nice and lite carry with an exceptional double action trigger in several varieties. I and my wife carry a CW45 but you can get them in 9mm or 40.

I've carried a number of firearms over the years from SP101 (full house 357 were not fun in that snub) to a Sig P239 (fantastic gun but heavy) to a Govt 1911 (also heavy). I have settled on a couple. A Sig P938 (easy to conceal and light but the recoil is not for everyone still my wife carries one too), a Chiefs Special and the Kahr CW45 most of the time. I did carry a Kahr K9 and still have it but the weight was again a little much for me every day.

Last edited by JonP; 01-06-2017 at 03:39 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-06-2017, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnhunter View Post
To recommend the proper carry, proper handguns to carry and to practice to the point of having confidence in maintaining a high proficiency in SD is logical.
Hmmm, good point.

If you don't shoot it from time, carrying it for personal defense, ???

Many states require some sort of qualification with the firearm being carried. PA does not, but I'm not complaining. I shoot often enough with my entire collection to be comfortable with any of them.

But to be a responsible CCW user, you need to shoot a bit.
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  #53  
Old 04-06-2017, 12:25 PM
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Competency with a handgun

[QUOTE=Trent12;1445938]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv S View Post

Take a chill pill and calm down. Your reading comprehension is obviously fine so I don't get the problem? The words "I think" and "in New Mexico" should give even The dimmest of folks the idea not to take it as set in stone. Obviously they will tell him what he needs when he actually applies to get his permit.

The rules for getting a permit up in Colorado are actual quite soft or undefined from what I've just read on it. Here in NM and in Texas they have a lot more involved it seems. I've had permits from both states and they both involve mandatory shooting tests that also determine the caliber handgun you may carry. I believe Arizona may do the same? I'll find out soon enough as I plan to make a move there this year!


Colorado seems to just say "competency with a handgun" which has a lot of things included in it from LE service to military service/training. All the way down to just approval from a lisence holding firearm instructor. Nothing about caliber restrictions though from what I read. I don't know many instructors that would say proficiency with a rimfire pistol was suitable for self defense. I guess it would depend upon the individual.
Hello,

I did not have to take any kind of shooting test. My CCW Class certificate along with my ID and permit fee was all I needed.

Rich
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  #54  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:50 PM
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[QUOTE=randdmart;1614930]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent12 View Post

Hello,

I did not have to take any kind of shooting test. My CCW Class certificate along with my ID and permit fee was all I needed.

Rich
Congratulations! What did you eventually decide on? How do you like it, and have you been practicing?
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  #55  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:08 AM
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The 22 RF admittedly lacks stopping power, but it can still be highly effective with proper training and the right ammunition for the job. the up side of carrying a 22 RF is that it's an easy round to control, so follow up shots will be much easier to manage than with something like 9mm, or even .380 for that matter. The velocity and size of the bullet is meaningless if one is unable to effectively manage the gun and ammunition choice.

I've been in two situations in which the 22 RF was enough cartridge to stop the threat, but not with much time to spare. I think the assailant's decisions to break off the attack was probably due to the excruciating pain, in which I put two in his shoulder. But even when he stopped the assault, he was still in the fight and made one last lunge, which was when I missed with the third and final shot, that went through the wind shield. He was clutching his shoulder, moaning and yelling for us to just get the "BLANK" out. In that situation my sister and I had been kidnapped, I was in the back of the van, she was in a front captain seat, initially with a knife to her throat while the assailant made death threats and demands. I probably only had a couple, maybe three seconds at most to get to the gun, which was in my sisters purse between the seats. He lunged straight at me while I used my feet / legs to push him back, trying desperately to get the gun out of her purse as he tried to jerk it out of my grasp. I don't know if he knew the gun was in there, he sure acted like it, so I think he may have spotted it simultaneously to when I made my move.

In another situation, also a kidnapping incident, I was being violently dragged and punched and was only barely able to get to my gun in time. When I did I wildly fired a couple shots in a successful attempt to get him to break off the assault on me long enough to right myself some what, I was on my back, and gain control of the gun. It worked and not a second to late, as I was just about to lose consciousness. But he immediately lunged back toward me just as I got both hands on the gun and was righting myself. I fired two more rounds, this time one struck him in the upper chest shoulder area, this was when he yelled ok, ok, it's over, don't shoot again. I think the other round may have gone through his upper arm and blew out his truck window, or I cleanly missed him with that shot and only blew the window out, I'm not certain. In this incident too though, had I been shooting something larger I might not have been able to recover quick enough from the very necessary first two wild shots I took, recovery time was crucial with him initiating a second charge so quickly following those first two wild one's. Granted it was a close call, I'm not at all regretting having only been armed with a 22 RF on that day.

In both of these incidents though I was using a good quality HP, Mini Mags.. So my advice to anyone who should carry a 22 RF for self defense is don't skimp on ammo, carry the highest quality, highest velocity ammo available.

Now days I generally carry a .357 mag. with 158 gr. Gold Dots, or I stuff it with 125 gr. +P 38's, depends on where I'm going. I often carry a back up too though, sometimes it's a little Taurus 22 auto loading pistol, other times it's a SC 9mm. But I don't go with a 22 RF as my primary SD gun any more, despite a couple of incidents in which it was just enough, it's not likely to be the primary SD pick any time soon. In other words, I am in no way advocating that a 22 RF is an appropriate cartridge for self defense, I'm only stating that it worked for me under those circumstances.

IMHO, you really need to pick some guns up in calibers that interest you, shoot them and see how they handle for you. Try taking quick follow up shots, evaluate how much time and effort it takes to make good placed shots, then practice, practice, and practice. And make sure you shoot the ammo you'll be carrying, or something that resembles the recoil of full tilt self defense ammo, it could make the difference between life and death.

SMOA
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  #56  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randdmart View Post
Good Morning,

I couldn't find another forum to post this in so I hope this is the right one. I'm going to be getting my CCW in the State of Colorado in late March. Once I get my permit I'll need a gun. I already own a Walther P22 but I have been told that this will not cut it for defense purposes for many reasons including but not limited to:

Un-reliability
No stopping power
I can get sued due to injury if I shoot someone with a .22

I found a 9mm gun that I like (S & W Shield W/ Crimson Trace Laser Guard) but again thinking of it from a cost perspective I already own a handgun. I'm really not sure what to do here and why.

Rich
Since you have a Walther P22 they make the same gun in .380 as the PK380. Right now Smith is having a $75 rebates on the Shields.

CD
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  #57  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Diver View Post
Since you have a Walther P22 they make the same gun in .380 as the PK380. Right now Smith is having a $75 rebates on the Shields.

CD
My friend I frequent the range with has a PK380 and we shoot the snot out of it. It only ever has problems with some of the weird profile self defense bullets. So test what you're carrying but other than that it's boring reliable and fun to shoot. It's is kind of a big gun for a single stack .380. It does have enough room for a double stack mag but is still just single stack. DA trigger does suck but SA is good...
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  #58  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submoa View Post
The 22 RF admittedly lacks stopping power, but it can still be highly effective with proper training and the right ammunition for the job. the up side of carrying a 22 RF is that it's an easy round to control, so follow up shots will be much easier to manage than with something like 9mm, or even .380 for that matter. The velocity and size of the bullet is meaningless if one is unable to effectively manage the gun and ammunition choice.

I've been in two situations in which the 22 RF was enough cartridge to stop the threat, but not with much time to spare. I think the assailant's decisions to break off the attack was probably due to the excruciating pain, in which I put two in his shoulder. But even when he stopped the assault, he was still in the fight and made one last lunge, which was when I missed with the third and final shot, that went through the wind shield. He was clutching his shoulder, moaning and yelling for us to just get the "BLANK" out. In that situation my sister and I had been kidnapped, I was in the back of the van, she was in a front captain seat, initially with a knife to her throat while the assailant made death threats and demands. I probably only had a couple, maybe three seconds at most to get to the gun, which was in my sisters purse between the seats. He lunged straight at me while I used my feet / legs to push him back, trying desperately to get the gun out of her purse as he tried to jerk it out of my grasp. I don't know if he knew the gun was in there, he sure acted like it, so I think he may have spotted it simultaneously to when I made my move.

In another situation, also a kidnapping incident, I was being violently dragged and punched and was only barely able to get to my gun in time. When I did I wildly fired a couple shots in a successful attempt to get him to break off the assault on me long enough to right myself some what, I was on my back, and gain control of the gun. It worked and not a second to late, as I was just about to lose consciousness. But he immediately lunged back toward me just as I got both hands on the gun and was righting myself. I fired two more rounds, this time one struck him in the upper chest shoulder area, this was when he yelled ok, ok, it's over, don't shoot again. I think the other round may have gone through his upper arm and blew out his truck window, or I cleanly missed him with that shot and only blew the window out, I'm not certain. In this incident too though, had I been shooting something larger I might not have been able to recover quick enough from the very necessary first two wild shots I took, recovery time was crucial with him initiating a second charge so quickly following those first two wild one's. Granted it was a close call, I'm not at all regretting having only been armed with a 22 RF on that day.

In both of these incidents though I was using a good quality HP, Mini Mags.. So my advice to anyone who should carry a 22 RF for self defense is don't skimp on ammo, carry the highest quality, highest velocity ammo available.

Now days I generally carry a .357 mag. with 158 gr. Gold Dots, or I stuff it with 125 gr. +P 38's, depends on where I'm going. I often carry a back up too though, sometimes it's a little Taurus 22 auto loading pistol, other times it's a SC 9mm. But I don't go with a 22 RF as my primary SD gun any more, despite a couple of incidents in which it was just enough, it's not likely to be the primary SD pick any time soon. In other words, I am in no way advocating that a 22 RF is an appropriate cartridge for self defense, I'm only stating that it worked for me under those circumstances.

IMHO, you really need to pick some guns up in calibers that interest you, shoot them and see how they handle for you. Try taking quick follow up shots, evaluate how much time and effort it takes to make good placed shots, then practice, practice, and practice. And make sure you shoot the ammo you'll be carrying, or something that resembles the recoil of full tilt self defense ammo, it could make the difference between life and death.

SMOA
Any encounters & shootouts during an alien abduction?
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  #59  
Old 04-07-2017, 06:08 PM
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Only the now and then thing, but with BP preparing to button up the border I think things down here may settle down pretty soon.

Oh, you meant ET type aliens, my mistake. I don't use a firearm in those situations, I use my particle gun for the little green guys. BTW, who's leaking my close encounters with ET's?

SMOA
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  #60  
Old 04-08-2017, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Trent12 View Post
I'd personaly avoid the Remington's after their gigantic recall and flop on the R51. The Ruger and Khar are better choices by far...
Obviously, you are right. However, their RM380, based on a respected, proven design, seems to be well received in terms of reliability and function. Also, the second generation of the R51 seems to be very reliable (looking at reviews on the Remington site) and the Pederson design is known for its reliability as well as recoil-softening design. The only consistent negative I've read about the second generation R51 is its polymer trigger. For the record, I am not a huge Remington fan at all but think it wise not to discount designs they offer that are good and reasonably priced.

Right now, I'm settling on the idea of a Ruger SP101 snubby with a shrouded hammer but I'm still not sure.
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