There is a small group of us former Military Firearms designers who are kicking the idea around of reintroducing the Broomhandled Mauser concept, but using a Double-action S&W N frame at the rearend of it, a double-action trigger, and a longer magazine well for cartridges such as the 357 Magnum or one of my own wildcats based on the 220 Swift or the 7.62x39 shortened to 1.3 inches. We Know what we'd be getting into, but we are curious as to whether anyone else has been thinking of this sort of foolishness also.
I have to admit it has appeal. I am a handgun small game and varmint shooter.
What about a rimless version of the 256 Win Mag based on the strong 223 Remington case? Case forming is straightforward for us “cheap” types. The Mauser handles high pressure very well and this cartridge would not strain the action. I have visions of chasing jackrabbits and loading with stripper clips…
[EDIT] How about an 8" barrel? Held between our kness while sitting it should be easy to hit with.
I say go for it, but that's because I like new ideas.
Having sold guns for six or so years, I've picked up on something, though. Shooters don't like new good ideas. They only like good ideas that are a hundred years old. If your name isn't John Moses Browning, innovation isn't allowed.
This is why every single issue of every single gun magazine in the US has an article about a 1911, and there's rarely any significant difference between the latest 1911 flavor and the original.
This is why the lever-action .30-30 still sells even though there are dozens of cartridges that do everything the .30-30 can do, and do it better.
This is why cartridges like .45 GAP, which takes one of the flaws of the .45 ACP and corrects it, are often doomed to fade into obscurity.
New and Improved is bad. Old and stagnant is good.
The reluctance to embrace anything new is certainly true when it comes to cartridges. Cruising the internet I see the same questions and knee jerk statements every day: Will the 7mm-08 last?” “Will a .260 Remington kill deer?” “I’ll wait X years before I buy one to see if the it lasts.”
There are exceptions like the 243 Winchester which was lucky enough to be chambered in new rifles, loaded to high pressure and receive good advertising.
Then the 17 Hornady Rimfire Magnum which had a meteoric rise and is now wallowing around asking the question: “Where do I go from here.” I enjoy the .17 HRM and hope it will hang on for the long haul.
As a kid, I would set with my Dad, my Uncles, my best friend and discuss rifles and cartridges. We wore out a bunch of Gun Digests and Shooters Bibles comparing rifles and cartridges. When we bought a new rifle, handgun or cartridge it was after a lot of discussion, discretionary money was hard to come by in the 1960’s. We shot our new guns, handloaded for them and used them every way we could think of. We only wore out one firearm, a S&W K-38, something about Dad and four boys shooting it every week for 30+ years.
In this case, I have to admit I like the Broomhandle. The grip is small and adding a good grip will add to the shootability of the handgun. The box magazine and even a detachable magazine all lend to the idea of a powerful handgun varminter. I don’t want to be negative but I do have visions of an unbalanced pistol similar to the Webley Fosbery I this is to say, a lot of mass above the bore line.
I believe Colt and S&W are missing out by not marketing a break open or fixed breech single shot aka S&W Model ‘91, Colt Camp Perry, H&R U.S.R.A Model and the Ruger Hawkeye. There have been at least two attempts during the heyday of silhouette shooting to market a good single shot but to do so a start up company has a steep hill to climb to gain wide acceptance. My father knew he wanted a Thompson Contender when they first hit the market but waited three years before buying one. Dad bought his first Contender based on rumors the company was failing, he figured if he was going to get one, now was the time.
Well, with Christmas, deer season and that work thang it took a few days for all the pieces to fall into place. Swampdoc, do you or your friends know of a fellow named Orin J. Harrington?
First let me correct myself: Single and double-action? I am purely a Wildcatter, and as such am guilty of building up extra cylinders for Ruger Blackhawks in some God-awfull Blaster Configurations. The 220 Swift case necked down to 257-258 in bullets and trimmed to fit a Blackhawk cylinder was the Original idea in this project. It grips the cylinder walls well without any setback most of the time, but it sometimes locks up the cylinder. So my Buddies and I are going to build a prototype and show it off and let others play with it before we decide to go farther with it. We have used the 7.62x39 trimmed to both 1.00" and 1.30" and necked it down to 257", 312", and 357". We are now playing with the 220 Swift case which is semi-rimmed and that could make headspacing less problematical. The 1.00", 257 Super Auto Pistol Cartridge will only work in a 1911 if only veryshort bullets are used. The same is true of the 312" and the 357", so it is time for us "Dreamers" to dream up a New version of an Old gun
As a conservative old crank, I'd have difficulty finding any way to improve on the perfection of the Colt's 'P' frame revolvers, the S&W's 'N' frame revolvers and Colt's 1911a1.
How much can the Winchester line up of lever action rifles, be improved other then changing the metal alloy. Looking at Mauser's model 98, Winchester's model 70 has there been any modern design that has the sculptured grace. Compare a Luger PO8 to one of the plastic weapons. Can you imagine some one admiring a plastic weapon for it's grace and beauty?
There's lots of industrial commody firearms out there, Ak47. M-16, Glocks, etc. There's not much to recommend them other then they do their job, after a fashion.
Jim
I can't say I see the need for double action on a pistol of that size. I would say if you could re-introduce a true broomhandle with high quality and a price no much more than $1000, you would have a market. The Spanish did a very good job of reducing complexities of the Mauser without too far away from the design. Once the market is established, you could move into a "super" broomhandle.
I have often wondered why Uberti or similar company does not make a MIM/CNC-ed clone of the Broomie, or the Triple Lock or the Shooting Master... The market for the collector's is there I believe if the quality is reasonable.
Look at my 1860 Henry Uberti? Who would have thought that a clone of a lever action rifle from the civil war would still sell today considering how much better guns and ballistics are available off the shelf?
With the safety and the hammer location on the Muser the double action looks good to me.
I am looking at the .256 Winchester Magnum - I like the .25 caliber for varmint cartridges.
The .256 Rimless would work with a stripper clip and the Mauser could load the detachable box magazine from a stripper clip. A convenient way to carry cartridges.
Looking at the .25 X 39 I drew a .25 caliber cartridge using Greg Mushials RCBS Load program. The cartridge looks pretty good with a total water capacity of 23.1 grains. With a bullet seated .257” it has a water capacity of 19.5 grains. I used a shorter case - thinking of the 75-grain bullets.
The .256 Rimless is another good candidate.
We shooters are beginning to resemble a flock of old women. Always dissatisfied with what we have. Always wanting something new for novelty's sake. It does not matter that it doesn't do anything that what we already have doesn't already do. Guns have become many men's 'fashion'. Change for the sake of change.
I think it's a cool idea. But the cost / cool ratio will usually determine the success. I like guns that are mechanically cool. I'm always interested in how people try to build a better mouse trap. By all means build it and show it to us. It's got my curiosity.
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