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Old 02-05-2017, 09:50 AM
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Wobbly cases - out of line? Run out?


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I use two different methods of trimming brass, both of which require me to spin the case in a drill. I've always noted the amount of "wobble" when the case is spinning, although I've never known for sure what to make of it. Since the case is being held by a little flat-base threaded chuck, I can only assume the more the wobble, the more out of line the case body (and neck, mouth of course) is with the case head. For rifles/guns that headspace on the shoulder, it shouldn't matter. But what about my 30-30s? I've got a Marlin 336 that I'm fighting HARD to get good accuracy from - and I mean relative to other lever guns, not bolt guns. I'm doing good to get 2"-3" groups at 100 yards, which, while sufficient for the kind of hunting I do with the gun, isn't ideal of course. I would think even with those cursed barrel bands and sling attachments I could get 1.5"-2" accuracy with careful handloading and good shooting.

It just so happens that my 30-30 brass is about the most wobbly of all. Is this just a coincidence, or is there a relationship here?

jake
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:01 AM
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I don't have a very good picture in my mind of your "little flat-base threaded chuck"? Can you roll the cases on a mirror with the rims off the edge? Might show you something from a different perspective.

Cheezywan
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:48 AM
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It's your shell holder. It's not holding the case flush so the base starts out crooked and the body follows.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:22 AM
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I agree with JBelk, replace the shell holder, it's a cheap fix and you are not out much if it ends up not being the problem. I found that after 10 years or so of serious reloading activity my 30-06 and 270W rounds had a slight wobble to them using the "roll on a mirror" technique. I had a new shell holder that came with my 270 dies. Pulled bullets from the wobbly rounds and full length resized them using the new shell holder, depriming pin removed. Performed the same mirror roll test and found no wobble. I tossed the 10 year old shell holder, and purchased a runout gauge with dial from RCBS. I now check all my newly loaded ammo. I also got into the habit of dropping them into a Wilson SAAMI case length chamber gauge. Nothing has ever chambered hard. Peace of mind comes at a surprisingly small price.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakesnake66 View Post
But what about my 30-30s? I've got a Marlin 336 that I'm fighting HARD to get good accuracy from - and I mean relative to other lever guns, not bolt guns. I'm doing good to get 2"-3" groups at 100 yards, which, while sufficient for the kind of hunting I do with the gun, isn't ideal of course. I would think even with those cursed barrel bands and sling attachments I could get 1.5"-2" accuracy with careful hand loading and good shooting.

It just so happens that my 30-30 brass is about the most wobbly of all. Is this just a coincidence, or is there a relationship here?

jake
Open sights or scoped. As my eyes got older open sight groups opened up. Unless the barrel is shot out or or there is serious throat erosion, 1.5" accuracy should be attainable from your 336. Do you have the same complaints with factory ammo? Try a box or two of good factory ammo and repost your results. Has the rifle been owned by you since new? I bought a used 336 in .444 Marlin at a gun show. Looked good all over. I couldn't get it to shoot a good group and my shoulder was complaining about my efforts. I contacted the seller from the show and he put me in touch with the original owner. Turns out that he had almost exclusively shot his own cast bullets out of it. Even though the rifling looked pristine it had leading issues which a gunsmith buddy had to deal with. Now it shoots fine, 1.5" at 100 yds consistently with jacketed bullets. The older 336's were all good shooters, I can't speak for the newer (with a safety) breed.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emp1952 View Post
I agree with JBelk, replace the shell holder, it's a cheap fix and you are not out much if it ends up not being the problem. I found that after 10 years or so of serious reloading activity my 30-06 and 270W rounds had a slight wobble to them using the "roll on a mirror" technique. I had a new shell holder that came with my 270 dies. Pulled bullets from the wobbly rounds and full length resized them using the new shell holder, depriming pin removed. Performed the same mirror roll test and found no wobble. I tossed the 10 year old shell holder, and purchased a runout gauge with dial from RCBS. I now check all my newly loaded ammo. I also got into the habit of dropping them into a Wilson SAAMI case length chamber gauge. Nothing has ever chambered hard. Peace of mind comes at a surprisingly small price.

If a shell holder is causing the problem it was manufactured out of spec right from the get go, no way a brass case head could impose that much wear or stress on a .125" hardened steel precision deck. What you describe is something I've also personally dealt with though, but it had nothing to do with wear, it was because the shell holder, and, or press ram slot were dirty.

SMOA
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