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  #21  
Old 02-07-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaySendero View Post
I've been reloading 150 SGKs in my 270W for years.
All deer have been one shot kills.
Some run a ways - Some bang flops DRT.
They make bullets size holes going in.
All exited - Some are 3/4" round,
Some that hit a rib or shoulder are 4" blow-outs.
I've not ever found a bullet.
Well said Ray.

There are times when I need to 'DRT' a critter - typically pigs in heavy cover. Base of the skull, or broadside through both shoulders. Nothing else is guaranteed.

So if a critter making it more than a few steps is a lost game animal, it is in my opinion unethical to use anything but those two shots. Pass up the shot if you can't, or won't, track them......
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2017, 11:42 AM
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Who said it's a lost game animal if it makes it more than a few steps? Has anyone said that? Didn't think so. Who said they can't or won't track a blood trail? That's right, no one said that either. I guess you decided to make that up.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Mike, clearly there are no guarantees as I stated earlier. I agree with you and I'm not trying to debate that with you. But I have killed a lot of deer over the years, as many of you guys have. Certain bullet/speed combinations tend to drop them on the spot a lot of the time, while others produce a 50-100 yard long blood trail a lot of the time. In some areas I hunt, the difference in dropping them or the deer going 50-100 yards can mean the difference in a quick recovery or a very long night, based on wooded steep terrain. Thanks for the input guys.
Statistical clustering.... random chance.... I'm completely serious. There is NO causal relationship between a deer dropping on the spot, and anything outside of a CNS hit (or taking out 2 of 4 legs). None. Period. End of story! A couple hundred deer with each of two bullets, carefully documenting the exact wound channel size/placement/range/impact velocity, MIGHT suggest one cartridge/bullet/etc. is statistically more probable to drop a deer on the spot. But there will never be any guarantees and the sheer effort of eliminating the staggering number of variables, would boggle the mind of anyone trained in statistics.

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Originally Posted by Slong View Post
In some areas I hunt, the difference in dropping them or the deer going 50-100 yards can mean the difference in a quick recovery or a very long night, based on wooded steep terrain.
Then I would suggest in those circumstances, the 'break-both-shoulders' shot, or CNS. Which is exactly what I do on pigs, having long ago lost faith in any cartridge being 100% reliable, otherwise.

The fable of certain bullet / cartridge combinations being 'magical' in their effects, is just that.... a fable. Aided and abetted by decades of crap in the gun press touting this-that-or-the-other "new and improved" gun/cartridge/bullet, some of which appeared by be written by people with no hunting experience whatsoever....

If you read enough of such stories, the entertaining part (to me) is that one version of the story will have bullet 'A' as orders of magnitude better than bullet 'B,' then the next version of the story will have the results completely flipped. Usually this coincides with a new ad campaign... what are the odds.... ?

The quest for guaranteed bullet performance, under all circumstances, is about like going on a search for solid gold unicorn poop. It might be interesting and entertaining, but you'll probably have as much when you start out, as you do when you quit.

I've seen too many critters run when they 'should' have been dead in their tracks, to believe otherwise. It is a disservice to new hunters to pretend there is any magical combination of gun/bullets/etc. that will 'always' guarantee success. Encouraging hunters to know the anatomy, and how to track animals that run off, would be a far more realistic and productive use of time than promoting one (product) over another.

I could tell you all the stuff that I've had DRT in very great detail, and it wouldn't surprise me if the next post told about those same products not yielding a DRT. Different experiences, different random outcomes.

Trying to do you a favor, I really am. Don't be deluded into thinking one bullet is magically better than another. I can tell you a lot of stuff that WON'T work very well, but that is a different conversation.....
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2017, 12:48 PM
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Good day. I'm some one who has been using the Sierra 6.5 120gr FB &GK for 50+ years on deer. I have used it in the 264 Win mag., & 260Rem/6.5x55. We have taken countless head of good size muley's with complete success. Have driven this bullet from 3000FPS to in excess of 3400FPS. As with any bullet placement is paramount. As I see it your 270 with the 130Gr GK should be an admiral bullet for any deer. I would use it with out hesitation.

Last edited by Dom; 02-07-2017 at 12:59 PM.
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  #25  
Old 02-07-2017, 01:52 PM
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Dom, thanks for the helpful feedback.

Mike G, I don't need you to do me a favor. I did not ask you what shot you recommend. No one said there was any one bullet that drops a deer every time. You go off on tangents and spew off things that you think someone said, but you must be creating them in your feeble mind. You sir, are a jack ***.
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  #26  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Dom, thanks for the helpful feedback.

Mike G, I don't need you to do me a favor. I did not ask you what shot you recommend. No one said there was any one bullet that drops a deer every time. You go off on tangents and spew off things that you think someone said, but you must be creating them in your feeble mind. You sir, are a jack ***.

And you have narrow opinions about things you don't know nearly as much about as you think you do. You asked for opinions and some of us gave them to you. Your preconceived ideas made you unwilling to accept or listen to folks that have MUCH MORE experience than you do.

Your loss not ours. I'd suspect you're not long as a member of this forum.

Good luck selling your stuff elsewhere!
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
They are also very upfront about how fast you should push their bullets, and the risks you run if you push them too hard.
That's generally true about most C & C bullets. A side story on our exp is many years ago before I got a chronograph I'd loaded some of the Pro Hunters for my brother with H4350 and by the Sierra manual, should have been doing about 2950 fps. He shot many deer with none taking a step. Once I got a chrony, they were doing a measly 2750 fps but did they work. I worked another load up for him with RL22 and these were pushing 3000 fps. The first deer he shot ran. I can't remember how far but skinning it, he said you could just about put your fist in the exit hole. He wanted the old load back and has used them ever since.
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2017, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Dom, thanks for the helpful feedback.

Mike G, I don't need you to do me a favor. I did not ask you what shot you recommend. No one said there was any one bullet that drops a deer every time. You go off on tangents and spew off things that you think someone said, but you must be creating them in your feeble mind. You sir, are a jack ***.
Slong, why don't you take a week off from the forum. Better yet, find another forum where everyone will agree with your preconceived notions, and ignore reality.
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2017, 04:49 AM
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The .270 win. Is very effective on deer , sheep and mountain goat with any bullet choice really,imo. Elk and moose sized game is another matter and this is why I choose a more tenacious bullet for the job.I am a .270 win user and prefer a nosler partition or Barnes tsx's or similar product for these heavily built animals.Anyways, this is what I do.
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2017, 05:13 AM
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And where might that be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Mike, clearly there are no guarantees as I stated earlier. I agree with you and I'm not trying to debate that with you. But I have killed a lot of deer over the years, as many of you guys have. Certain bullet/speed combinations tend to drop them on the spot a lot of the time, while others produce a 50-100 yard long blood trail a lot of the time. In some areas I hunt, the difference in dropping them or the deer going 50-100 yards can mean the difference in a quick recovery or a very long night, based on wooded steep terrain. Thanks for the input guys.
No idea of your location, range (brush???). Behind the shoulder shot deer (even heart hit) run 50-75 yards ALL THE TIME. It doesn't take a deer long to cover that distance, especially in fight or flight mode. I'd say if you don't like partitions, which I've found to be excellent on deer (not water buffalo), you are probly gonna dislike pretty much anything. I think your expectations are a bit unrealistic for a behind the shoulder shot. I doubt the difference between 130 & 150 gr bullets will matter as much as the placement, unless you are talking of extremely close or far shots.

Last edited by nachogrande; 02-08-2017 at 05:17 AM.
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  #31  
Old 02-08-2017, 05:50 AM
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This was quite funny but not untypical of the forum culture. The OP asks for advice between two bullet weights. On receiving the objective advice he not only attacks the kind advisors personally with insults but also re-advises himself differently. In another thread he punts his already made up mind about certain bullets and weights. Crazy.
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  #32  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:37 AM
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Talking "who said that?" this boy ain't right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Who said it's a lost game animal if it makes it more than a few steps? Has anyone said that? Didn't think so. Who said they can't or won't track a blood trail? That's right, no one said that either. I guess you decided to make that up.
AH, that would be YOU Schlong. Right in post # 19: "deer going 50-100 yards can make the difference..."
You can look it up for yourself after your well deserved time out.
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  #33  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:30 PM
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of the 40+ deer we ( me, sons, step-father ) have shot with a .270 over the last 25 yrs, the only bullet that has been unacceptable has been the Winchester Silvertip in 130 gr weight. The only ones we have lost have been shot with that bullet and several others had to be shot again due to poor bullet performance.
The Federal Premium loaded with either 130 or 150 partition or 150 game kings have performed admirably. Handloads with the 150 Sierra also have done well. The 150 Ballistic Silvertip also works well but is had to find around here. Overall, my preference is the 150 Partition - but anything other than the silvertip ( or Remington bronze point ) is acceptable as long as the rifle shoots it well. Our Model 70's seem to prefer the 150 gr bullets, the Rugers like the 130s - your rifle ... who knows until you shoot some of each.
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  #34  
Old 02-08-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Guys, I have a 270 Win that my son if going to hunt with starting next season. It shoots Federal Premium Nosler Partitions well but I have never been very happy with the performance of a partition on deer. Too many small exit holes and deer that run 50-75 yards when shot behind the shoulder. I personally don't think a deer provides enough resistance for the partition to really perform. I think it's a great bullet but just a little too tough of a bullet for whitetails, based on my experiences.

I currently handload a 140 grain Game King for my 270 WSM and am very pleased with the performance on animals, but due to a move in the near future I will not be set up to reload for awhile. I will eventually develop a load for the 270 Win with the 140 grain, but Federal Premium loads the 130 and 150 game kings. I am curious to hear if you guys have any first hand experience with the 130 or 150 grain game king in 270 Win. Published MV on the 130 is around 3040, and the 150 is 2850 if I remember right.

I push the 140 a touch over 3000 MV with my handloads and its been devastating on game. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Slong,
A friend of mine has hunted extensively all over the world, exclusively with the same two rifles. A 270 winchester and a 375 H&H. Both pre 64 Winchesters. His 270 load was a 150 gr Sierra at 2900 fps. He has dropped every animal he shot at and trusted his rifle ammo combination on all his hunts which include some of the most expensive to hunt and most remote areas of the globe. I saw photographs of giant Marco Polo sheep that in my view well exceeded 300 pounds and seemed to be closer to 400... The majority of his game dropped with one round (including the Marco Polo sheep that was shot at very long range).

I don't think there is a particular bullet that never fails either with too small an exit wound or not enough penetration. I shied away from Sierra Gamekings because I heard they were very soft but that certainly isn't my friend's opinion. He has hunted far more than I have and I've put a few miles in remote areas over the years. I think it's really personal and trusting your equipment.

This may be off topic but in spite of owning and hunting with a large variety of rifles and calibers, in the end I've always gravitated to the same two rifles, a 30-06 and a 375, either H&H or improved of my own design. I love rifles and own too many but that's a completely different topic. Find the load you like and turn your firearm into a trusted friend. It's almost more important than caliber or what comes out the muzzle.
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  #35  
Old 02-08-2017, 04:24 PM
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270 for deer

My 270Win loves the 130gr partitions. This past season I shot a buck out of a tree stand at 80 yards head on to me. Round when right where I wanted it and exited at the bottom of the rib cage missing bone. The deer buckled. I cranked out the round, caught the empty in the air, glanced back and the deer was up and 25 yards to my right offering me a slightly quartering away shot. Put the round behind the right shoulder and completely blew out the left shoulder. The deer flipped end over end, got up and walked into the woods. Trailed lots of blood and found it 200 yards from where it was shot. The first shot should have anchored it, but did not. The second shot should have anchored it, but did not. I either did not see the big "S" on its chest or it was wearing kevlar. When gutted, lungs and the top of the heart could not be identified and there was no blood left. One of those amazing stories, not a very heavy buck 150lbs or so. Later that week I got another buck and a doe. All with the same .270W same round. A single shot dropped both on the spot at 110 and 125 yds respectively. Some deer are just tougher than others. I have some 150gr partitions that I have a load for and will try the heavier bullet next year, but I am satisfied with the 130gr, it did its job.
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  #36  
Old 02-08-2017, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slong View Post
Mike, clearly there are no guarantees as I stated earlier. I agree with you and I'm not trying to debate that with you. But I have killed a lot of deer over the years, as many of you guys have. Certain bullet/speed combinations tend to drop them on the spot a lot of the time, while others produce a 50-100 yard long blood trail a lot of the time. In some areas I hunt, the difference in dropping them or the deer going 50-100 yards can mean the difference in a quick recovery or a very long night, based on wooded steep terrain. Thanks for the input guys.
Some cartridge/bullet combinations do seem to kill deer by yanking the dirt out from under their feet, but the question you have to answer for yourself (by digging through the "evidence") is how did that bullet kill? What terminal performance characteristics caused the deer to drop immediately?

Many of the 6mm/243 bullets kill by penetrating and then going all to pieces. They create devastating soft tissue damage, when placed properly in the cardio-thoracic region. Other bullets may cause bang/flop results by being more stoutly constructed, but placed carefully to effect the often talked about "high-shoulder" shot.

I don't aim for the shoulder on purpose, unless unusual circumstances result in that being the ONLY shot I'm likely to get. I also no longer shoot bullets with a propensity to fragment and lose a majority of their mass and/or fail to leave a sizable exit wound. While both of those shot/bullet choices can be effective, I think there is wisdom in hedging your bet with premium, heavy-for-caliber bullets designed to fly to point-of-aim, penetrate, expand and exit.

Someone posted earlier that exit wounds weren't all that important. I think they also mentioned 240lb deer in the South? While there are a few isolated geographical regions in the South that produce the occasional mature buck that weighs more than 200 pounds, they are certainly not the norm like they are further north. Bergmann's Rule still applies...and when you hunt large animals in areas of dense cover, exit wounds that bleed profusely are a very desirable result.
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  #37  
Old 02-08-2017, 07:28 PM
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Smile

Stay with the 130 grain bullets. That's what Jack O Connor used to use all the time. If you're going to use 150 grain try that new Alliant powder, reloader 16 you can get 3000 feet a second out of 150 grain bullet with that powder.
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  #38  
Old 02-09-2017, 03:54 AM
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Mike G.

No offense intended, I know that you try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but

WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG?


Paul
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2017, 06:09 AM
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LOL Paul sometimes it's entertaining to give them enough rope...
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  #40  
Old 02-09-2017, 09:34 AM
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I use them in 130 grain Sierra Game King SBT. It is the only thing I shoot out of my 270 Win.
For the price anf how they work on deer size game it canīt be beat.
Hope it helps, Wille
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