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  #41  
Old 02-09-2017, 02:12 PM
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A very interesting thread..


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I'm sure if those deer had any idea how much plotting and planning went into initiating their demise, they would become much more of a challenge to hunt.
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post

Someone posted earlier that exit wounds weren't all that important. I think they also mentioned 240lb deer in the South? While there are a few isolated geographical regions in the South that produce the occasional mature buck that weighs more than 200 pounds, they are certainly not the norm like they are further north. Bergmann's Rule still applies...and when you hunt large animals in areas of dense cover, exit wounds that bleed profusely are a very desirable result.
Yep. I remember when I was at Ft Benning marveling at how small the deer were. Now in GA they did (in the 70s?) bring down some deer from Wisconsin and established a population. I don't know about other states.
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  #43  
Old 02-09-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by M1Garand View Post
Yep. I remember when I was at Ft Benning marveling at how small the deer were. Now in GA they did (in the 70s?) bring down some deer from Wisconsin and established a population. I don't know about other states.
In addition to the deer brought in from other locations, deer biologists have long realized that expression of genetics (both body size and antler mass) was optimized in areas with more fertile soils. This is true even in the warmest parts of the whitetail's range, despite the imperative to dissipate body heat. Had Aldo Leopold been afforded the means and opportunity, I wouldn't have been surprised to find that some herds of Coues deer are larger-bodied than others, simply because of extremely isolated geographical advantages, such as a relative abundance of reliable water sources or well-balanced mineral deposits.

A lot of people plant food plots, never realizing it was their amendment of the soil that gradually resulted in increased deer usage, larger body sizes and bigger antlers, not the protein or carbohydrates the deer took in from the corn, beans, wheat or clover. Some folks have learned that many of the same results can be obtained by amending for both pH and nutrient levels, followed by a simple strip-discing regimen.

I don't recall if the OP ever mentioned where he's hunting or how big the deer are, but if they're bigger than what you saw at Ft. Benning, the heavier 150gr bullets may be the better choice.
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  #44  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:30 AM
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Yes always exceptions to the rule and variation in populations. The size of black bears in NC are a good example. The deer I saw in GA were smaller than what I was used to, I used to tease a guy in my platoon who was from not far from there about the size of the ones he shot. The flip side is there was a deer in SC shot recently (#3 B&C I think) that weighed 240lbs. I'm sure the interest in hunters to improve habitat, food plots, minerals, etc has been beneficial as well. Regardless a GK of any size is more than adequate, despite what Lee Hoots wrote about the 270
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  #45  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:54 AM
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Michigan White Tails were imported by quail plantation owners in the 1920s to S. Georgia and just across the Fla. state line. The difference in size and antlers between those deer and the National Forest deer 40 miles away is astounding! Florida native deer have smooth yellow antlers with only the oldest bucks having any 'warts' and dark texture.
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  #46  
Old 02-10-2017, 07:09 AM
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If you want to see something astounding, compare deer from the east part of the state of Mississippi to those on the west side of the MS River levee, between "the hill" and the water - ultra-exclusive farming/hunting land accessible only to MS old money, the landed gentry, or those well-heeled enough to pay their toll.

Not only are they likely a different sub-species, a result of the same kind of multi-source restocking programs mentioned by JBelk, but having reproduced many generations in environments different enough to be on separate continents, they are almost different animals.
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  #47  
Old 02-10-2017, 07:51 AM
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To Broom, JBelk, and Jakes point, I live in Cole County Mo and grew up in Gasconade County, both just south of the Missouri River. I hunt on both side of the river. In general, the deer south of the river are noticeably smaller. Nothing like those ground squirrels they call deer in Texas, but still smaller in general. You can still kill or see a monster south of the river, in fact my Dad saw what he described as one of the biggest deer he's ever seen in the field behind his house just this week. But they are much more infrequent south of the muddy MO. I killed an absolutely massive deer in Callaway County (just north of the MO) two years ago. I'm not going to tell fish stories, because if I told you what I honestly think that deer weighed, you wouldn't believe it. But trust me, it easily eclipsed 240 lbs on the hoof.

The average doe and bucks are just bigger up there two. It has to be something genetic, not just nutritional, because there are good fertile farms south of the river too.

Back to the 130-150 question. That massive deer took about 4 steps after being hit by a .308 150 SST and then tumbled down the side of the hill he was walking along. I am 100% certain that a 130 or 150 grain .270 Win bullet placed in the same spot (slightly behind the shoulder angling forward) would have produced the same result. Again, in a Sierra GK, I'd prefer the 150.
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  #48  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
Michigan White Tails were imported by quail plantation owners in the 1920s to S. Georgia and just across the Fla. state line. The difference in size and antlers between those deer and the National Forest deer 40 miles away is astounding! Florida native deer have smooth yellow antlers with only the oldest bucks having any 'warts' and dark texture.
Hadn't heard that one. I'm surprised as at that time we were trying to recover from them being nearly eliminated to feed the logging camps at the turn of the century. I dug around and did see that both Texas and Wisconsin deer were used to restock Georgia. While some believed it was to put larger deer down there, it apparently was due to a dependable source during restocking:


http://georgiawildlife.com/sites/def..._1928-1974.pdf

Anyway, sorry to get off topic, I could talk deer and deer hunting all day
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  #49  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:23 AM
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Even the largest mule deer is not large framed imo. A .243 win with sst's is more than adequate and a large mule deer is larger than any Whitetail. I use premium bullets on elk etc.
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  #50  
Old 02-12-2017, 03:47 AM
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I always go with a heavier bullet. I've shot a number of deer with the SGK bullet in 130 gr.. I shot one head on laying down and it ran at least 80 yds. after being shot. I now shoot a 30-06 with 180 gr. round nose bullets. They still run a little ways but are dead and don't know it. If you want to knock a deer down use a 45-70. Even a poor placed shot will anchor them.
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  #51  
Old 02-12-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by icecold35 View Post
I always go with a heavier bullet. I've shot a number of deer with the SGK bullet in 130 gr.. I shot one head on laying down and it ran at least 80 yds. after being shot. I now shoot a 30-06 with 180 gr. round nose bullets. They still run a little ways but are dead and don't know it. If you want to knock a deer down use a 45-70. Even a poor placed shot will anchor them.
A "poor placed shot" with a .45-70 or even a .375 H&H wont necessarily "anchor" anything. A .22-250 into the lungs is far better than a .45-70 though the guts.
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  #52  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:20 AM
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TnHunter, I hunt with a buddy that shoots the Fusions out of a 7MM WSM. He has not had good luck with them and is switching before next season. I have blood trailed quite a few of his deer over the past few years that he has used them. Weak blood and small exit holes have become a pattern for him, on well placed shots. I hope you have better luck with them.

In my opinion, most newer bullets today that are marketed as deer bullets are built too tough for deer. The Fusion is a bonded bullet as are many others out there.

I personally will take a Game King, Core Lokt or Interlock all day long based on my experiences over 30 years of hunting. Cup and core bullets kill deer very quickly and efficiently. My deer routinely drop on the spot. I don't care if the bullet only retains 60% of its weight on the rare occasion that I do recover one. I like the multiple wound channels and devastation created my some fragmentation taking place. The results don't lie.

My pet load is a 140 grain game king (270 WSM) pushed a touch over 3000 FPS. It rocks them and I wouldn't think of changing a thing. I was just looking to find out some info on the 130 and 150 grain because the 140 game king isn't offered in a 270 Win factory load, and I'm not in the position to reload for the 270 Win caliber right now and won't be for awhile. Luckily I have years worth of handloads on hand for my 270 WSM. Thanks.
I would suggest that you look into a Lee hand press, with it you can reload regardless of your present lack of a setup!
Just a great way to stay in the game while making a move!
I also use the 140 GK and the other day I harvested two 90lb'ish does with near identical lung shots, one dropped on the spot while the other sprinted almost 100 yds with only mush for lungs! Game animals must not read up on knock down power and stuff like that!
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  #53  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by icecold35 View Post
I always go with a heavier bullet. I've shot a number of deer with the SGK bullet in 130 gr.. I shot one head on laying down and it ran at least 80 yds. after being shot. I now shoot a 30-06 with 180 gr. round nose bullets. They still run a little ways but are dead and don't know it. If you want to knock a deer down use a 45-70. Even a poor placed shot will anchor them.
What part of dead wasn't good enough, running 80 yards isn't unusual at all, and a bad hit with a 45/70 is still a wounding shot, not good!
The one thing a 45/70 will do is penetrate a white tailed deer from stem to stern and effect a clean kill, well except for the mess during field dressing!
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  #54  
Old 02-12-2017, 11:42 AM
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I've loaded 140's and 150's, but I don't think I've ever killed big game with anything other than the 130's, usually the Speer Hot Core. I put the smack down on deer, elk, antelope and bear with the 130's, never had anything walk it off. 130's just shoot better IME.

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  #55  
Old 02-14-2017, 05:43 PM
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We have very good luck with 130 Sierra on deer and antelope. Most stop in their tracks. For elk and moose we use 140 accubond,seems to work well. Our guys use 4 different 270s,pre64 70 2008 70, sake 64, and a parker hale all like 130 Sierra Spitzer boat tail. We usually have snow in deer season so tracking can be easy sometimes. Heavy bullets go through the animals and there is a need to track . My first rifle was a 3855,tough me how to track. 45 70 is very same in tracking catagory.
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