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  #1  
Old 02-06-2017, 03:21 PM
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Is this the beginning of the end for brass?


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Article from shooting sports USA

Shooting Sports USA - February 2017
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2017, 04:28 PM
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No. Its been tried before and it works but it is not as simple as it seems.
I liked the brass case bodies with the removable steel heads but they didn't last.
Nylon body .38 Special was a good idea that never caught on.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2017, 04:32 PM
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They say you can reload them 40 times, and at $60 for 500 it should be more economical!?!? Takes special dies and they are $99 sooooo.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by goldwingryder View Post
Article from shooting sports USA

Shooting Sports USA - February 2017
No.

So, first, remember what community this is in. The 1911 is a 106 year old design that still sells very well. People still buy SAA clones and lever action rifles. Traditional sells better than New And Improved.

While it's true there is a new breed of shooter in the younger generations, one that enjoys new fangled doohickeys, they're also fairly pragmatic. If they're getting into handloading, they're still going to be interested in the less expensive route, and they're even more apt to hate on a company that doesn't produce what it promises.

"+P velocity without +P pressure" is absolute nonsense; physics doesn't work that way. "Doesn't stretch" means the case isn't expanding to fill the chamber, and thus you'll have gas leaking out around the case. This is actually the saving grace, because if it did fully expand into the chamber, you'd blow the case head off of the cartridge in blow-back firearms. "More internal volume" is meaningless unless you're going to push pressures above maximum SAAMI spec, which is a good way to lose fingers. "Lighter" is meaningless for everyone but the military and police, and, even they won't experience much of a difference with the amount of 9mm Luger ammo they carry.

Now, let's read between the lines, here... "the dies accomplish this by pushing the case from the die with a compressible synthetic rod that acts like a spring." How many loadings will this plastic rod work for before it fails, leaving a round stuck in your die? How much does this part cost? How available will they be?
How long will NAS cases remain this price? Is this some introductory thing and, two years from now, they'll suddenly be $0.50 a piece?
If pulling the bullet overstresses the crimp between the two pieces, how in blazes is exposing it to 35,000psi of chamber pressure not going to? This goes double for blow-back firearms.

For those of you who are asking how common blow-back 9mm Luger firearms are: virtually all semi-automatic carbines and rifles that fire that round will be blow-back.
I won't be abusing my firearms with this ammunition.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2017, 12:33 PM
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I heard the same 'brass is obsolete' crap in 1969 with the introduction of the VL-22! It almost lasted to 1970.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ko Improbable View Post
No.

So, first, remember what community this is in. The 1911 is a 106 year old design that still sells very well. People still buy SAA clones and lever action rifles. Traditional sells better than New And Improved.

While it's true there is a new breed of shooter in the younger generations, one that enjoys new fangled doohickeys, they're also fairly pragmatic. If they're getting into handloading, they're still going to be interested in the less expensive route, and they're even more apt to hate on a company that doesn't produce what it promises.

"+P velocity without +P pressure" is absolute nonsense; physics doesn't work that way. "Doesn't stretch" means the case isn't expanding to fill the chamber, and thus you'll have gas leaking out around the case. This is actually the saving grace, because if it did fully expand into the chamber, you'd blow the case head off of the cartridge in blow-back firearms. "More internal volume" is meaningless unless you're going to push pressures above maximum SAAMI spec, which is a good way to lose fingers. "Lighter" is meaningless for everyone but the military and police, and, even they won't experience much of a difference with the amount of 9mm Luger ammo they carry.

Now, let's read between the lines, here... "the dies accomplish this by pushing the case from the die with a compressible synthetic rod that acts like a spring." How many loadings will this plastic rod work for before it fails, leaving a round stuck in your die? How much does this part cost? How available will they be?
How long will NAS cases remain this price? Is this some introductory thing and, two years from now, they'll suddenly be $0.50 a piece?
If pulling the bullet overstresses the crimp between the two pieces, how in blazes is exposing it to 35,000psi of chamber pressure not going to? This goes double for blow-back firearms.

For those of you who are asking how common blow-back 9mm Luger firearms are: virtually all semi-automatic carbines and rifles that fire that round will be blow-back.
I won't be abusing my firearms with this ammunition.
I really have not looked into this far, great info, and it is appreciated! I found this article from NSSF, and thought it was interesting. I'm gonna keep plugging along with my .45 and .223 brass, I have plenty after 22 years in the Army, LOL!
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2017, 06:06 PM
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This is the O'Connor steel head case. They cylindrical and you formed them.
Good idea. Didn't go far. Interesting collectors item but a bit out of my price range.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:59 PM
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You have to lube your pistol cases with this brass. That and pistol brass usually shrinks, so the not having to trim, at least for pistol brass is a moot point. Besides that, you usually lose your brass before you get to 40 reloads on a semi auto handgun. Then you have a two piece design with special dies. I wouldn't want the hassle, especially reloading on a progressive press. I don't see it catching on at all for those looking to reload.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2017, 01:13 PM
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Been watching these too, but hadn't seen this article. I'll be happy if they end up being even a small improvement over brass overall. Wait and watch is often my SOP for these sort of things.
Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JBelk View Post
I heard the same 'brass is obsolete' crap in 1969 with the introduction of the VL-22! It almost lasted to 1970.
Know a guy that owns one. Has a pile of ammo too! Nice rifle (to look at). Never spent time at the trigger. Reload how?

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  #11  
Old 02-08-2017, 02:39 PM
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A throwback to the 19th century. Everything old is new again.
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2017, 03:00 PM
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Another CON in my world, my range gets their shorts in a bunch if a magnet has ANY attraction to my ammo, bullets or cases.
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  #13  
Old 02-08-2017, 10:55 PM
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I'd kind of like to know what you are talking about. You only posted a "site" that most folks, certainly myself, can't see. If you want to start a discussion, please post what the discussion might be about, not some obscure place to go see. Thanks!
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:58 AM
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I think there is a better chance of caseless ammo making a solid comeback before this.

Its a neat idea that will not catch on at this point in time due to too many people who like the normal brass case.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2017, 01:49 AM
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These things come along every now and then. I recall back in the 1990's picking up some 5.56 NATO empties at the range. The neck and body were made of a gray polymer and the case head was brass. I did a bit of research and found the manufacturer online. They claimed the cartridges would be a less expensive alternative for military applications, especially training. Still, they disappeared in a few months, doubtless due to intrinsic problems, and the logistics of adding a second stream of single purpose ammunition.

Brass cartridge cases are still the best and most satisfactory solution to making reliable accurate ammunition, consistent with manufacturing methods. Some things have reached the pinnacle of development, and aside from cost savings through use of aluminum and steel cases, little advantage remains in alternative materials.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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As long as you do not store your brass for weeks on end in salt water, I see not much of an advantage over brass since I already have the tooling.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2017, 07:02 PM
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End for Brass?

If these cartridge cases become popular for factory made ammo, you can bet that some enterprising company will start manufacturing and selling empty brass cases for the reloaders.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by drhutch View Post
Another CON in my world, my range gets their shorts in a bunch if a magnet has ANY attraction to my ammo, bullets or cases.
Yeah, I forgot about that.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:31 AM
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I'd kind of like to know what you are talking about. You only posted a "site" that most folks, certainly myself, can't see. If you want to start a discussion, please post what the discussion might be about, not some obscure place to go see. Thanks!
About a year ago, a company (Shell Shock Technologies) started touting a new type of ammunition case. It would be a two-piece job with part of it steel. Apparently, they've not given up and are still promoting it.

They claim:
Stronger, cheaper, half the weight of brass
Greater corrosion resistance
More internal volume
More consistent ignition
+P velocities without +P pressures
Cases won't stretch, so trimming is not needed
Withstands 40+ reloadings
Picks up with a magnet
Can be anodized in different colors for identification purposes

When I originally heard about this stuff, on another site, I was indifferent to it, in terms of factory ammunition. I have many more doubts, today.

Hopefully, this simple image link will work for you: https://www.shellshocktechnologies.c...re-300x300.jpg
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2017, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ko Improbable View Post
About a year ago, a company (Shell Shock Technologies) started touting a new type of ammunition case. It would be a two-piece job with part of it steel. Apparently, they've not given up and are still promoting it.

They claim:
Stronger, cheaper, half the weight of brass
Greater corrosion resistance
More internal volume
More consistent ignition
+P velocities without +P pressures
Cases won't stretch, so trimming is not needed
Withstands 40+ reloadings
Picks up with a magnet
Can be anodized in different colors for identification purposes

When I originally heard about this stuff, on another site, I was indifferent to it, in terms of factory ammunition. I have many more doubts, today.

Hopefully, this simple image link will work for you: https://www.shellshocktechnologies.c...re-300x300.jpg
I saw that and I thought that it looked like a cure for a problem that didn't exist at a very high price relative to brass cases. How many here have 45ACP cases with an unknown amount of reloads?
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