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  #21  
Old 02-16-2017, 12:13 PM
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I've been using bl-c2 in my 35 whelen ackley improved for a number of years and found no problems with "hot loads". Using a chronograph, i can shove the 225 sierra out the muzzle at approximately 2950 fps. I have taken two elk with this load and neither of them went more that 25 feet from being shot. Both were expired when i got there. Shot distance was somewhat meager. One was about 55 yards and the other about 75 yards.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2017, 02:43 PM
Bov Bov is offline
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Hodgdon burn rate chart

This is the burn rate chart I have been looking at...
Powders are in a different order from Reloader's Nest...

In this chart, BLC-2 is slower than H4895, Varget, IMR 4320, Reloader 15...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Hodgdonburnratecolor.pdf (31.7 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by Bov; 02-16-2017 at 02:51 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2017, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bov View Post
This is the burn rate chart I have been looking at...
Powders are in a different order from Reloader's Nest...

In this chart, BLC-2 is slower than H4895, Varget, IMR 4320, Reloader 15...
So BLC-2 might be too slow because those other powders work fine in a 358 Winchester.

I use IMR 4320 in my 358 Winchester load. It's a Browning lever gun and I do not push it to it's max like I would with a bolt gun. Very repeatable with no flyers. She gets an easy 1 MOA. It looks like you can put a bit more powder in that 35 WSM case though.

Have you water tested it for volume? You can get a good feel for relativity using the basic gas equation: PV=nrT. The nrT there would be constants related to the powder associated with the ambient as well.

A practical proof would be say a 458 magnum vs a 450- NE 3 1/2". They both put out the same bullet at the same speed, but the MUCH longer 450 has less than half the pressure!

One person already mentioned Quickload. That program is WELL worth it's cost. You cannot use it's calcs (or should not) without allot more evidence. Even so, it is a wonderful tool. You might need to get the case designer as well for a wildcat.
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:56 AM
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Mea Culpa:

I did some more research on this and BLC-2 is not as fast-burning as my initial look suggested. It's in with a bunch of other medium burn rate powders. I would consider it among the faster powders that are still suitable, but for your application, would still suggest something closer to 4350.
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2017, 03:50 AM
Bov Bov is offline
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Not recommending these loads, not my work!!

frhunter13
No I haven't tested water volume. Honestly do not know how to do it myself at this point. I have compared water volume between the .350rem mag (62.6gr, 225 gr bullet), 358 win, 358 Norma(80gr., 225 gr bullet), .270 wsm, .300wsm and 325 wsm(68.9gr, 220 gr bullet). The water volume increases a little with an increase in bore diameter with the same bullet weight, so my 35 wsm should be around 70 gr or so with a 225 gr bullet (yup, just a guess). It was stated earlier that my 35wsm is closer to the 358 Norma than the 350 rem mag, but I'd say it's about halfway in between them in volume, and it's a short case. It is fatter than the 350 rem mag though too, so...

I have attached a spreadsheet of load info I have gleaned from different sites as well. Why am I not starting with these... What fun would that be?

Oh, forgot to add earlier, when I called about shipping my rifle back to me I talked to the gunsmith who had done some test firing of my rifle. He said he used RL 17 and had no pressure signs and that I should probably look to a faster powder, maybe RL 15.

Hopefully heading to the range today with a working chronograph. If I survive, I will post results form my continued BLC-2 tests and H4350 if I have time.

NOT RECOMMENDING THESE LOADS, THEY ARE NOT MINE, THEY ARE SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK FOUND ON THE INTERNET, REFERENCE PURPOSES ONLY, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 358 wsm spread sheet.pdf (462.4 KB, 12 views)
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  #26  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:56 AM
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Your Sambar should be roughly 5% more case capacity than my 35 Whelen AI. The best powder for heavy bullets (250-275) in mine should be about right for medium weight (200-225) in yours, and the best I found has been Alliant's Power Pro 2000-MR. All my research shows it to be a slightly slower ball version of RL-15, about a RL-16 for speed. 62 grains of the 2000-MR is my max load for the 250 Partition, and should be a good starting point for 225s in your Sambar.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2017, 05:32 PM
Bov Bov is offline
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Didn't have much time to spend due to prior commitments but I did get a chance to burn some powder. Took me several tries to finally get the chrono working so I burned all my BLC-2 loads without getting any numbers I trust, some shots didn't record, gave impossible low numbers (450 fps), or error messages.

I decided to burn some H4350 with the chrono set several feet farther down range, like 20' from the muzzle to see what would happen. Low and behold I got reasonable numbers, no errors, etc. With the first couple rounds I got 2214 and 2182 fps, the next two with a little more powder, I got 2306 and 2287fps. No pressure signs. Then I had to go home.

I attached a photo of a group I shot with BLC-2, with no velocity readings . The high right is a fouling shot, the black square is approx. 1". Oops the left side of the photos is the top.
Attached Thumbnails
35 WSM load testing-first-group.jpg   35 WSM load testing-range-set-up.jpg  

Last edited by Bov; 02-18-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bov View Post
Didn't have much time to spend due to prior commitments but I did get a chance to burn some powder. Took me several tries to finally get the chrono working so I burned all my BLC-2 loads without getting any numbers I trust, some shots didn't record, gave impossible low numbers (450 fps), or error messages.

I decided to burn some H4350 with the chrono set several feet farther down range, like 20' from the muzzle to see what would happen. Low and behold I got reasonable numbers, no errors, etc. With the first couple rounds I got 2214 and 2182 fps, the next two with a little more powder, I got 2306 and 2287fps. No pressure signs. Then I had to go home.

I attached a photo of a group I shot with BLC-2, with no velocity readings . The high right is a fouling shot, the black square is approx. 1". Oops the left side of the photos is the top.
My 358 Winchester does a little better with a 225g Sierra SBT Gameking. 2400 fps. Verified by Chrony. That is with 48.9g IMR 4320, 58,000 psi according to Quickload. This is a book load using my specific rifle type. Easy 1 MOA.

49.4g BLC-2 Give 2400 fps at 52,000 psi but is not as accurate - 2 MOA. Another book load.

This can also be reached with IMR 4031 and 4895 actually.

This is with a 20" Browning Lever Rifle. Your case looks VERY similar to a 358 Winchester which has a water volume of 57. So I guess yours at 70 is fatter than it looks in the photo! A 350 Rem Mag as water volume of 72, Quite close, but that is a belted Magnum.

I am thinking you should be able to at least match the 358 Winchester, and get 35 Whelen type performance.

PS. To measure water volume, use fill a primed case (ruins primer of course) with water until it pores over and has a little head on the top from water tension. Poor that into a weighed container, then weigh again. You need to flick the case repeatedly to make sure all the water is out of the case.

Calculate difference per the grain or gram weight of water depending on scale units (can get that on the internet), unless scale is grains then you have a direct measurement. This will give you a value just a tiny bit low because you just cannot get ALL of the water out of that case. It will get you within 5% anyway.

Did they give you a pressure MAX for your rifle?
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Last edited by frhunter13; 02-19-2017 at 09:02 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-19-2017, 09:55 AM
Bov Bov is offline
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frhunter13
No, I did not get a pressure max for this rifle.
Did you get consistent velocity with BLC-2?
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  #30  
Old 02-19-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bov View Post
frhunter13
No, I did not get a pressure max for this rifle.
Did you get consistent velocity with BLC-2?
Yes pretty much. Within +/-30 fps. The key is to put the chrony 10 yards out, then correct for that ten yards to get muzzle velocity. I simply believe the time to muzzle MUST be in the rifles accuracy zone per the vibration of the muzzle.

The pressure vs time curve in the barrel so to speak, has an optimum for the rifle for any bullet mass. It takes me a long time as a hand loader to tune one. mostly. Then there is the miracle that either works with a factory load or gets me inside of 1 MOA right off the bat. Rare indeed.

Again, Quickload helps me speed this up. It shows all of the data well enough anyway to be quite helpful. And no, I do not work for them, heh. If you spent the nickels to get a dynamite wildcat like that, the price of Quickload is peanuts. It does NOT have your caliber though, so you would need to get the designer tool. To use it, you need to measure that case six ways to Sunday. Once it's in, you will move MUCH faster towards the best load for that rifle.

PS: You should ask the manufacturers for the various max and average test pressures on the prototype. If they don't have that info, well... Hmm. Its a guess, and I would stay well under 60,000 psi unless they tell you otherwise.

Last edited by frhunter13; 02-19-2017 at 11:23 AM.
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  #31  
Old 02-19-2017, 03:57 PM
Bov Bov is offline
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OK, so I went to the range again today. Set up the chrono 20' out again and sent a few of those BLC-2 loads through they average 2445 fps. Soooo we'll see...

The H4350 went from around 2300fps and increased charges up to 2730fps with compressed loads. Primer still looks ok, no crater, a little radius on the edge not flattening to fill the primer pocket. Case head has no shiny spots or flow into ejector port, no sticky bolt, fired cases will re-chamber easily. Have not measured case head expansion yet on these.

If I put more powder in I will be filling the neck of the case but not sure about compressing the powder any more than I already am... I'm pretty close to the 2800fps velocity I was hoping for too, so that is good.
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  #32  
Old 02-19-2017, 05:38 PM
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Smile

Bov.

2730 fps at 20 yards is probably 2800 muzzle. That's 350 Remington Magnum velocity for a 225 g bullet. About the same max for the 35 Whelen.

I think you are already there
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2017, 04:03 PM
Bov Bov is offline
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Chamber dimensions

I called Hart yesterday to ask about the chamber dimensions of my rifle. I talked to the smith who did the work and he said it is made to the SAAMI specs of the 300wsm, except for being necked up to .358 caliber. He said when I want reloading dies just call Redding and tell them what I have and they will make them up, they have made several of them for his rifles already. I told him about my testing and he said a friend that has a 35wsm and he uses H380 with 225 gr Barnes bullets. He said the guy is a benchrest shooter so he does lots of testing/shooting.
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