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  #21  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojkoh View Post
DARKER, that's specifically 4064, different powders work differently and seating deeper with increase pressure especially with case limitations like the .308.
I have found it to be well applicable generally across the board, with my pressure equipment (and chrono) in bottleneck rifle cases. If you have data on specific exceptions, sharing those specifics here would be a benefit to the community.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:44 PM
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Cool

understand what you are doing. Unfortunately, most over the counter rifles have very deep throats. I had a Model 70 re-barreled by Heart and when I sent them the specs, I also sent along a dummy cartridge that was .030 shorter than the max OAL using a Nosler B/T 165 G bullet and had them throat the chamber to this length cartridge. To get your best accuracy you need to seat the bullet in the case so it just touches the lands when chambered. I actually load my brass .002 longer than the throated depth to make sure it touches. By doing this you will increase pressures slightly. In my re-barrel job I also requested a N/M Chamber ( Tight ) so I really have to watch pressures. I do not use any bullets heavier than 168 G and my favorite is the Combined Technologies 168 G B/T bullet. A little description of my new Barrel: 26 inch, Stainless steel tube, N/M Chamber, 1:12 Twist, throated, Teflon coated exterior, Bench rest crown and Cryo treated. At 100 yards it will put five rounds through the same hole. At 200, I can cover all five holes with a 50 cent piece on a still day. This is the load I use; Winchester Cases, all the same weight =/- 1/10th grain. Fire formed. De burr flash hole inside. Neck Sized only. Federal 210 M primers. 46.5 G IMR 4064 and seated to match throat + .002. This is 30.06. Watch your excess pressure indicators. ( deformed primers )
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ5 View Post
I have found it to be well applicable generally across the board, with my pressure equipment (and chrono) in bottleneck rifle cases. If you have data on specific exceptions, sharing those specifics here would be a benefit to the community.
Actually it isn't. Different powders burn differently. You have noted in the past that you use your chrony for pressure testing. Sorry but that isn't the way to test for pressure.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
This is the load I use; Winchester Cases, all the same weight =/- 1/10th grain. Fire formed. De burr flash hole inside.
It's called uniforming the flash hole and in fact you ought to try uniforming the primer pocket too since I have yet to see any brass that had consistent primer pockets. This includes Norma and Lapua.

Quote:

Neck Sized only. Federal 210 M primers. 46.5 G IMR 4064 and seated to match throat + .002. This is 30.06. Watch your excess pressure indicators. ( deformed primers )
Best of luck finding 210Ms, I put mine aside and use others now (usually WLR) since 210Ms can't be found.
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  #25  
Old 03-16-2017, 05:43 AM
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I start all load development at the lands, and I use the same hornady tools as you have, I will add this, when full length sizing measure with headspace and only bump shoulder back .002.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojkoh View Post
Actually it isn't. Different powders burn differently. You have noted in the past that you use your chrony for pressure testing. Sorry but that isn't the way to test for pressure.
Actually he uses the Pressure Trace strain gauge instrument. He and Darkker have done a lot if testing with his unit that you can find posts on, so these are actual pressure measurements.

That said, this plot is taken from Lloyd Brownells .30-06 strain gauge measurements of pressure vs. seating depth with round nose bullets proves your point that there isn't a universally exact truth to the seating depth / pressure relationship; only a predominant one. This unusually long change in depth before pressure rises in this plot is due to both bullet geometry and case fill:



How far off the lands this bullet has to be before pressure stops dropping is due to its ogive taper being more gradual than any other bullet made and due to empty space in the case (I think the powder was IMR 3031, but I'd have to reread the report to verify that). For a standard tangent ogive pointed rife bullet, getting just 0.030" off the lands usually finds the bottom of the pressure curve.


Seamus,

Read this article by Berger. They used to recommend always seating their secant ogive VLD's touching the lands, but accepted that some guns just never shot them well with any charge weight of any powder. Then they got feedback from the owners of such guns who reported that if they just backed the bullets off the lands a bit they could then find a sweet spot load for them. Indeed, for some guns the jump has to be an eighth of an inch or more.

Item 3 at the top of this old page under Load Development is another example.

The reasons the above can be true are a bit mysterious, and I have been working on experiments to help analyze it, but they have born no fruit yet. The bottom line is that what is true most of the time isn't always true and that there are no universally right seating depths or bullet jump.
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Last edited by unclenick; 03-16-2017 at 06:19 AM.
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2017, 01:44 PM
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Load a bullet with no crimp so that the neck just holds it. Close the bolt and gently open it and measure OAL.You have just found the proper length to work from. Load less than this length
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:39 PM
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I don't get what your getting at. Do as I said and you have the OAL you need. Adjust your die accordingly which takes no time and your done with an accurate length. If you find it uncool to raise and lower a ram then you should buy your ammo at walmart
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  #29  
Old 03-24-2017, 02:36 PM
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Unfortunatly we have rifles with long throats and short magazines or in some cases visa versa. So we seat bullets out as far as the will go in the magazine and many times they have to make a jump to the lands and it still works most of the time anyway...

Like much of reloading and gundome, its a lot of misinformation made up by some gun scribe or self styled expert that thought it just must be so that all bullets that have to jump just don't shoot and that's BS...The fact is I have tested this old wives tale a dozen or so times on my custom sporters, Brno mod 21s and 22s that have this problem as do many Mausers, they come with long throats, and some with long mags...I shoot 130 gr. Spears for deer, and they have to jump a long ways to make contact as my 175 gr. Nosler partitions are perfect in mag and throat seated one caliber deep in the case. That's long, .Both loads shoot to the same POI and usually under an inch. Careful we don't get plump et up with tech...Shoot them first, then maybe you wont have to worry about a lot of conceived problems. I don't believe in the accepted belief of bullet jump, what I do believe in is an accurate barrel shoots about anything you run thru it and a bad barrel is junk even if it shoots great with a specific load, I want my guns to shoot it all accurately and prefer to the same POI..Most of my guns do that, but it took some time to put them together.

Last edited by Big 5; 03-24-2017 at 02:43 PM. Reason: corrections
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