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  #21  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:40 AM
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It ain't Rocket Science; just requires a tat of COMMONSENSE!!
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearLake View Post
It ain't Rocket Science; just requires a tat of COMMONSENSE!!
In politics the main dichotomy seems to be increased collectivism vs increased individualism.
In engineering, the main polarizing points of view are "do it per procedures" and "get it done, what ever it takes".

For a long time people have been trying to control other people, and other people have been resisting.

As James Dale Davidson postulated, the size of an empire is based on the ratio of the cost to extend control divided by the cost to defend against it. Britain conquered much of the world when had the new machine gun.

In the modern nanny state, common sense may not be exercised. What is not forbidden is mandatory.

What does it all mean?
Given these human natures, do you really think everyone is going to tolerate someone else posting how they are a more advanced reloader?
One who does not need load books or SAAMI pressure limits?

I think not.
Human nature is basically bad.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2013, 11:25 AM
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Most of the time you can what I call cross-corelate..I recently had to develope a wildcat cartridge with a rebore barrel..It was a 9.5x62 as the bore was too bad to cut clean to a 9.3x62, so we safetied up and did the 9.5x62...I allowed two things to start my loading and that was with the wider cross section of the 9.5 (.375) I could expect to use 9.3x62 data with about a 5% increase in powder, so I started with 9.3x62 minumum loads and worked up a grain at a time to a level then .5 grains at a time, chronographing as I went and using the old standard methods of case head expansion, primer observation and case head extractor marks and for sure being aware of sticky bolt extraction..in many cases one of these signals means nother but together they are very accurate, and a means that has been in use for many, many years...Add to this my practice of reloading each case as its fired and finding loose primer pockets as they come about and absolutly cutting back at the point of loose primers, then counting the number of reloads as you go..I like to get 10 or more before I'm satisfied all is well, and no more than two case trimmings within those 10, but that will increase when you get to 15 or more so allow for 4 case trimmings at that point.

The 9.5x62 case was also pretty close to the 375 Scoville, so I used that as a guide of sorts, but I got more powder capacity by about 8% so it was a starting point.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2013, 11:20 PM
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Big 5, I did exactly as you when working up loads for my Whelen AI with a new powder for which there was no data. I knew the relative speed of the powder, so used starting Whelen loads with known similar burning rate powder, carefully measuring and noting everthing, along with chronographing 3 of each load as I worked up. When I got to 75 fps over max standard Whelen velocities with the corresponding older powder, I had done 11 loads in the same cases with no loose primer pockets and still under .002" case head expansion. At this point I stopped.

No, I don't know the pressure of these loads, but as in working up loads for any other cartridge with known data, I know they're safe in my rifle. A 250 grain bullet at 2625 fps is a pretty big hammer for only 62 grains of powder. I'm very happy with my experiment, and never felt in any kind of danger at all during the process.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black mamba View Post
A 250-grain bullet at 2625 fps is a pretty big hammer for only 62 grains of powder.
What was the powder? I used 64.5 grains of IMR-4320 in my .358" mildcat to get 2624 fps. I'm interested to know the volume of your cartridge, too. My mildcat holds 88.9 grains o' water once it's been fired...
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:57 AM
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You can read volumes of tech data on how to do it, but in the end its up to you, so I suggest you do your homework and first of all find some calibers that coorelates close to what your attempting to do, its call cross-??somethin or other, and its a boone to those in the never never land of wildcatting.

Like all old wildcat-handloaders who lived in the glory days of wildcatting, I have dealt with this problem many times and the good Lord in most cases took care of us drunks and fools...

We did it without computers and not many reloading books, and nobody around to help..I recently built myself a 9.3x62 (375x62) because I had a shot out beautiful full rib 8mm barrel. I took a look at the 375 Styr, the 375 Ackley IMP, the 9.3x62 and others, studied each of them..I came to the conclusion that I could probably increase the 375 Ackley by perhaps 5% or more, but knowing Ackleys propensity to pack a case to its limit, I started 5% below Ackley starting loads and went to work..Id load and shoot 3 rounds then check expansion, ejector marks on primer, primer flatness and leaks, the old common stuff that folks say mean nothing these days, but what they need to know is some of those things like flat primers may indeed not mean anything but together with other indication of pressure mean a lot, so don't be to sure about such printed data...I chronograph every shot from start to finish, this is very important. The chronograph is a boone to the wildcatter.

At this point with 3 fired cases and all looks well we hope, I reload them with a grain more of same powder and primer, all the time taking note of how hard it is to resize and how snug the primers remain, and at some point I will mic the case heads and continue to do so from that point on..

I continue the above, and at some point, for whatever reason, I may start encresing 1/2 gr. at a time, then at some point I will feel a ever so slightly snug bolt lift or perhaps an extractor mark can be seen, I also observe how clear and deep that extractor mark, I'm now very cautious, knowing that I have reached and possible overreached my goal and I'm likely over the top and its time to run..I back off about 2 grs. and then test that load with a new case and see how many reloads I get without a loose primer...If I can get 10 or 15 reloads with 2 trims out of that single case, then I know all is well...Over time and with lots of shooting I may tweak these loads up or down??

Back then and even today with all the so called technical testing devices, that may or may not work as described, we as the average handloader can't afford it...Were still right where we were in 1940, except anyone today can afford a chronograph, if you handload, its absolutly essential IMO...For one thing when you get to your guns max, it will usually make a pattern of increases that are simulair like 30 FPS or whatever for each gr. of powder, then it will make a 75 FPS jump..I am satisfied that is time to back off, there is some arguement over this in that the next round may go back to 30 FPS...I stll back off at 75 FPS wright or wrong...

Anyway thats how we used to do it and many of us still do. Over time you actually get pretty good at it, but you will hear screams from the nay sayers accusing you of witch craft, satan worship and Lord knows what all, and most to them only know enough about handloading to be dangerous!

Thats how we did in the 1940 to 1970s or 80s? Today I rarely wildcat, there is no place to go worth the trouble, Everything has been done and the rest in repetition of someone 100 year old elses project and the info is available, about all one can do today is drill another hole in the hub and make it a 9 hole hub...

Last edited by Big 5; 01-03-2014 at 11:22 AM.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2014, 11:30 AM
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Black Mamba,
at .002 expansion I'm sure your OK...It has been written that .005 is probably max in most hi-power rifles, and I have gone there before, but like you, I would rather be close to 001 0r 002, and have my absolute max at .003, but that depends on the rifle, not all rifles in that or any other caliber are the same...mostly because of barrel tightness and chamber size depending at what stage of wear the reamer was used. You are apparantly in good shape.
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2015, 05:52 PM
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The reocities archive has the sliderule page:

Powley Computer, slide charts, wheel charts and sliderules
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2016, 05:09 PM
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If you have all that data to work with you normally have reloading data available somewhere out there..

A real wildcat has to correlated from an existing caliber to find a starting load and this can be tricky sometimes, but its always worked for me..I find a close caliber and go from there..I recall at one time I had a 10.75x68 and back then there was no data, nada...I started looking at the 404 Jefferys, 8x68 and that served only to confuse, then at the 35, and 400 Whelen, 9.3x62 and 64, and came up with a guess that should get me 2100 with a 400 gr. bullet, so I started 3 grs lower than what I was guessing and shot it in a tire, bingo it was a nice mild load..By the end of the day I had a buffalo rifle that shot a 400 gr. bullet 2100 plus with H335 and IMR4198 as I recall and a 350 gr. monolithic at 2300 FPS with H335...This was many years ago, today that information is available and that is a real nice light recoiling rifle that is suitable for any game on this planet...Wildcatting 60 or so years ago was indeed only for the pure at heart who attended church on Sunday morning and Loaded only on Sun after noon!

Last edited by Big 5; 08-04-2016 at 08:42 AM.
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  #30  
Old 08-02-2016, 08:08 PM
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I dream-up loads for my two mildcats by comparing the volumes of the cases to the shoulder point of mine versus a simlar cartridge. I take either .300WinMag cases or .300RUM cases and cut them at the shoulder point of those cases, or of others (such as a .300 Dakota or .350 Remington Magnum) and then fill with water to give me a ratio of mine versus the example cartridge.

For instance, my .358-caliber case holds 1.124X as much water as does a .350 RemMag case when both are truncated at the shoulder point. I then take the data for a particular powder in the .350 and multiply it by that 1.124X conversion factor. This gives me a value from which I calculate downward by ten percent, and then above and beyond the converted value by maybe two, four or six percent.

My goal is to find a charge that satisfies every need we have in a load before I get into the loads above one-hundred percent. If I don't, I have a few above parity and can shoot 'em and see what gives without having to go back to the reloadin' bench and load a bunch of new ones, just to maybe shoot only the two-percenters before I find the best charge weight. Basically, I load above parity and hope to not have to fire them. But I have them right there if they must be fired...
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  #31  
Old 08-04-2016, 08:46 AM
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Listed pressure in reloading books may or may not be accurate..We never know what actual pressure is unless with have a million dollars worth of equipment..and we don't....but every rifle, pistol or shotgun is an inity unto its own..what the book says is more or less and inaccurate guess and by gosh in YOUR rifle...

One thing for sure, if you handload, buy a chronograph, the are less money than a good scale..
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