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  #81  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:46 AM
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Annealing brass


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Let me try this once again WITH pictures:


Set your propane torch in a vise or something to hold it secure and then set the blue flame to the length of 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch:

DSC01240_zps9cefb96a.jpg Photo by rojkoh | Photobucket

Pick up the case head with your fingers and hold it to where the tip of the blue fame area is against the case shoulder:

DSC01241_zps1731efd8.jpg Photo by rojkoh | Photobucket

In a normal speaking voice say: One potato, two potato and rotate the case 180 degrees. Say: three potato 4 potato and start to rotate the case saying: five potato, 6 potato (constantly rotating the case and with normal commercial brass by 5 or 6 the case head should be heating up, drop in the water bucket to quench the case.

With American Ball brass (.30-06, 7.62) by six it should be getting warm, drop it in the water to quench it.

With M118 cases, you may go to 7 before you drop it into the water bucket.

This various with different calibers and cases. BUT... I've done it this way for decades and it's the best way to get that classic Lake City annealing tint to the case dating back to the 30's. IT WORKS.

Never ask how many time some of us have loaded M118 cases. We anneal every 4 to 5 reloads to relieve the stress.

Always anneal AFTER sizing... sizing stress' the cases. You anneal to relieve that stress. And yes we shoot a LOT of .30 cal here.
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  #82  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:27 AM
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I decided to apply the KISS principle and got one of those Anneal-Rite systems and it's about as simple as it gets, other than my old method of turning the cases over the flame by hand. This is more accurate by far.

I was sent a bottle of 725 degree Tempilaq and decided to also get the 450 version which I understand is primarily for cases like pistol cases or short rifle cases. Those in the venue of 30-06, 270, etc. the instructions say to use the 750 on the inside of the neck for those longer cases. I don't know why you couldn't use the 450 Tempilaq for all cases. When the light grey color starts to travel about 1/4-1/2" down the case that's the time to dump it. Seems accurate enough to me.
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  #83  
Old 02-21-2014, 01:46 PM
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You can. That's how the Hornady annealing kit works.
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  #84  
Old 02-21-2014, 02:01 PM
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I tried it and it works rather well. As long as you don't go past about half an inch below the shoulder I don't think 450 degrees or so will get near the head of the case. It's not the easiest stuff to get off a case for sure. Maybe a bit of alcohol would help.
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  #85  
Old 02-21-2014, 04:32 PM
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I use the torch and hold-in-hand method, then drop in a bucket of water. However, I'm wondering if a heat gun would work on the necks? I have a milwaukee heat gun that has two settings. I'd have to go check, but I think the "Hi" setting is about 1200 degrees or more. The gun will sit pointing upward on a bench and some attachments would narrow the heat dispersion.

How can I tell if it's working if I try it? I guess maybe look for the color change like with a torch (?)
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  #86  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:51 PM
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StretchNM,

Polish your brass first. You'll see the brass get bluish oxides as it starts to turn. With the hot air gun you'll have a significantly lower temperature than a propane torch, and its the difference between the temperature you are delivering and the temperature you are trying to get to and the Btu's available that determine how fast heating will occur. My concern with hot air is getting the case too hot below the neck before the neck turns color, but there's only one way to find out for sure. Let us know what it does.
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  #87  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:25 PM
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Thanks Nick. I was wondering that too - it could take so long to anneal the neck that by the time it does, the body and head have overheated. I have some old 270 cases that have not been "converted". I'll try it with them and see what happens.
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  #88  
Old 02-22-2014, 05:24 AM
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The industrial hot air guns I've used have nozzles that narrow and speed up the air flow. That added control might help because it not only narrows the aim, but the higher air velocity is like having greater convection in an oven. By keeping more air available that hasn't cooled yet, the temperature gradient across the air boundary layer will be a little steeper.

There was a fellow at The Firing Line who bought one of the ≈$400 hand-held induction heaters used to loosen bolts and to silver solder and other odds and ends. He built a timer that parallels the on-off switch, turning it on just long enough to anneal a case, which I recall being on the order of 2 seconds. It's probably the fastest method I've seen, but I don't know what the durability of those devices is, off-hand.
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  #89  
Old 03-21-2014, 04:47 PM
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I think we need a peer-reviewed study on the topic of the necessity to anneal.
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  #90  
Old 03-22-2014, 07:19 AM
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First, you have to define "necessity".
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  #91  
Old 03-22-2014, 09:29 AM
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I think if a guy doesn;t reload, or maybe reloads and shoots about 100 rounds a year, then annealing is certainly not necessary. It'll be years before he needs another batch of 100 cases for that cartridge. But shooting because we reloaded and reloading because we shot is how most guys are doing, or me anyway. At that rate, annealing saves money by stretching the number of times you can re-use a brass case.

But, Iron Sights, I really think a read through this entire Sticky and related "annealing" threads will amount already to a peer review conclusion on necessity.(())
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  #92  
Old 03-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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I bought one of these not long back and pretty happy with it. I didn't want to spend $300-400 for a super dooper fancy jobby so, I went with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLPGcSNyUs
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  #93  
Old 03-22-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Sights View Post
I think we need a peer-reviewed study on the topic of the necessity to anneal.
That's easy. Peer at the cases to review whether or not the necks are cracked.

If necks are cracked, annealing was a necessity for the survival of that particular case neck beyond however many reloadings it actually lasted. Depending on that number, you may feel you got your use out of it and be ready to toss it anyway. If a pressure ring has become detectable, it's time to toss it with or without annealing. Or you may feel the neck didn't last as long as it should have, and if there's no pressure ring or head expansion, then annealing would have got you more life from it.

Now, the necessity of annealing for uniform start pressure and the effect of that on accuracy is something that really could use some further serious further study. Bart Bobbit has been reporting for some time that the most accurate handloads seem to be in brand new brass (sorted and uniformed and loaded to be fired in tight chambers). There's not a good explanation, but hardness of the brass might have something to do with it.
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  #94  
Old 04-12-2014, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolt2bounce View Post
No brass will get softer if it cool rapidly exact 180 from the way in which steel reacts to rapid cooling.. B2B
Not true, if you anneal and quench the brass properly, you can and do get a heat treatment discolorations like the classic Lake City brass.
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  #95  
Old 04-12-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Sights View Post
I think we need a peer-reviewed study on the topic of the necessity to anneal.
Depends on how long you want to use the brass. In the old days when M118 brass was readily available, I reloaded it 5 times and tossed it. But these days things are different.

I anneal after every 4th to 5th reload. You'd be surprised at how many times you can reload the case when it's keep properly stress relived. I have a friend with some old M118 that you won't believe how many times it's been reloaded.

There is also the question of using Military brass, for instance 7.62 brass that's been fired in an M60 chamber. It's been cared for properly, but the M60 had sloppy chambers and the brass was put aside from Low impulse, low pressure loads. Yes I have split some cases before I put it aside (I've been ammo testing .308/7.62).

So there's a lot of factors involved in discussing this one... especially when using military rounds/brass.
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  #96  
Old 05-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by crazydave View Post
Well done!

I use a propane torch and a cordless screwdriver w/ socket bit. I put the case in the socket, rotate in the torch flame, then discard into a pan when the "color-change" takes place. I let the brass cool at room temp without quenching in water. FWIW....
I do exactly the same. I'm resizing .30-06 cases to 6.5 to shoot in my.....6.5-06
Once annealed I can step them down in one step without cracking necks and/or shoulders.

Lp
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  #97  
Old 06-18-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dentonbramwell View Post
The sources I've read pretty uniformly indicate that heating the brass until it has a dull glow is much much too hot.
You're right. Hold the case in your fingers by the bottom of the case, simply go:

1 potato 2 potato Rotate 180
3 potato, 4 potato, start to rotate round and round.
depending on the cases by 6 it should be getting warm,

Drop in cold water to quench,

Set your propane torch with the blue in the flame about 1/2 inch. Hold the tip of the blue flame to the should of the case like so:

What you're get is an annealing mark just like the classic Lake City cases. If you look closely there's a LOT of .30 brass getting done. I anneal every 4-5 firing and doing a LOT of .30 ammo testing with a lot of different bulelts


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  #98  
Old 07-11-2014, 10:51 AM
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Dtic study

>This report outlines an investigation it o the effects of hardening
during low temperature annealing on the stress corrosior susceptibility
of brass cartridge cases.



http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a094136.pdf
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  #99  
Old 10-21-2014, 05:07 PM
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One thing you need to be careful of, when you are annealing a wildcat that needs to be opened up a few calibers is not to let it anneal past the shoulder. If you do there is a good chance of the case collapsing when you try to run an expander in the neck. I fill up a pan with ice water to the shoulder and tip them over into the water when they turn color. The ice water is to make sure the body of the case doesn't anneal. YMMV.
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  #100  
Old 10-23-2014, 10:38 PM
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I did some test a little while back using both propane and MAPP gas torches . I applied the heat with one torch while turning the cases in a socket and drill

Here's what I started with . 750* indicator inside the neck and 450* just below the shoulder




Everyone of these pics shows what the flame and case looked like just as the 750* mark melted inside the neck or about 1 sec after . As you can see not one of the cases are glowing any color









This pic shows that even though you heat each case to the same correct temp . Where you hold the flame on the case while doing so makes a big difference as to what the annealing marks look like . This shows that just because you do not see annealing mark . That does not mean you did not hit the correct temp or vise versa you can over heat the neck while never seeing any anneal marks

All three of the case necks and shoulders were anneal to the exact same temp

Last edited by Metal God; 10-23-2014 at 11:50 PM.
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