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  #1  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:26 PM
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What Constitutes "Fairness" in Hunting?


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When I was a tad, I heard men in the generation a little older than my father say that using a "telescopic thing-a-ma-jig" on a rifle, was not giving the game a fair chance. Of course, today, the modern hunter has gone way beyond rifles with scopes.

Not too long ago, I read of a group of men that rigged a .50cal. rifle on a solid base, mounted in a truck bed. They set up with a Swedish artillery range finder. One of those devices where the optics are about four feet apart. They ranged a bull elk, that was laying down in the snow at about one mile distant. They then picked a patch of snow, to the left or right of the elk, doesn't matter, but far enough away that the impact of the bullet would not concern the bull in the least. They then fired on that patch, noting each hit, until they had the scope dialed in for the range on that distant bull. Swinging the rifle scope onto the bull, they shot him........

The entire story left a very bad taste in my mouth. I thought about how close we may be to viewing game on a home screen, moving the "mouse" onto the animal and remotely launching a killing shot from an easy chair in one's den!

How high is up? What to you, constitutes using devices that take too much away from the game and give the hunter and unfair advantage, and/or remove all sportiness from the sport?

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Steven
  #2  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:45 PM
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Here's what I know, there are tons of things out there to "help" hunters ranging from ballistic trajectory calculating scopes to ozone machines that kill your scent field fooling an animal at 30 yards.

If you have the $$ and have the desire to hunt preserves with genetically engineered deer with computerized scopes, scent killing undies and ozonic machines, have at it. Not for me, however. I'm getting pretty darn old and been hunting a long time now and have employed some "high tech" stuff in my hunts. I'm convinced some stuff works.

I am pretty ambivalent about whatever you, you over there or you in the back want to do or use in your hunting pursuits. BUT, it had better be legal where you use/do it. I'm simply not all that worried about how others hunt, as long as it's legal. I have my own very strict code of ethics when it comes to hunting, but I'm sure my "code" is not exactly the same as anyone else's.
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:58 PM
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9 out of 10 animals preferred to be shot with a rifle without a "telescopic thing-a-ma-jig"
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:09 PM
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Fortunately we have govt. wildlife agencies..

to make the general decisions in these matters, for the most part they give "sportsmen" enough leeway to not feel over regulated and maintain healthy game populations -- too bad native americans don't participate as they try to depend on game as a food staple. One circumstance I could never understand was the taking of nesting fish in the spring. We should be thankful and supportive of our wildlife management people.
  #5  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:29 PM
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I read.

I know every written word on interweb forums is true. IDK about things written elsewhere.
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:32 PM
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There are some counties in Southern Virginia where they still run deer with dogs, "because that's the way we've always done it.". I was told of one local group of hunters that ran one deer for eight miles until he collapsed. Doesn't seem fair to me.
  #7  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:01 PM
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I joined in a deer hunt with dogs back around 1980 when a crew chief that flew with me invited two fellas to join his family's hunt. I ended up killing one of two bucks killed during that hunt and enjoyed the experience. I'm not so ready to go again, but I never say never.

I guess one could look at it by understanding that using canines to hunt has gone on for thousands of years. A fella named Archibald Rutledge wrote some absolutely enthralling stories 75yrs ago about such hunts in the deep south and you'd enjoy reading them.

Legal is legal. The way my Daddy hunted is likely not the exact same way yours did. Let's open our minds to new thoughts and experiences and understand what we feel about hunting is not the same all other hunters think.
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for an amount of up to and including my life.
That is honor, and there are way too many people in this
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:23 PM
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If its legal than let it be. We have always searched for easiler and more sure ways of haversting game. How is shooting a deer with a .50 at a mile any less challenging then ambushing a deer on a food plot at 100 yds? A fully contained waterproof cartridge case beats a flintlock in the rain.


CD
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:28 PM
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Fairness in hunting to me means fairness to the animal being hunted, I feel like I owe it to them to kill them a humanly as possible.
I prefer to take 100% certain one shot kills where the animal is not aware that it's even being hunted, that's not always possible but I make an effort to make it happen.
Once an animal is hit and it looks to be a fatal shot I let them lie down and die in peace not approaching them until they pass on, why terrorize them in their final moments.
I've shot lots of deer out of a treestand that never seen me, ran 40 yards and died, with both bow and rifle. I like using the bow or crossbow because of the lack of noise. The animal probably has no idea that there in danger or that they've been fatally hit.
The point being that it doesn't seem morally or ethically right to terrorize an animal before killing it, impossible to do that bird hunting so that would be the exception.
Non-hunters have a hard time understanding this, I once stalked a sleeping pronghorn and shot him in the side of the head with a rifle, for some reason they are aghast at that scenario, I thought it was perfect, he went to sleep and never woke up.

I would add that killing anything shouldn't be an impersonal, you should always feel a tinge of compassion for the quarry.

Last edited by Kevinbear; 10-06-2016 at 03:33 PM.
  #10  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:44 PM
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Red face Tread lightly ld

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilysDad View Post
There are some counties in Southern Virginia where they still run deer with dogs, "because that's the way we've always done it.". I was told of one local group of hunters that ran one deer for eight miles until he collapsed. Doesn't seem fair to me.
A warning from one Yankee to another??? Hunting deer & hogs with dogs is a VERY old Southern tradition. & Trust me you don't want GRANNY CLAMPETT to hear you and have us a flare up of the "WAR OF NORTHERN AGRESSION." I'm pretty much 100% with KB, dogs for birds & hogs sure, deer, not as much. A sleeping/bedded deer, or a deer standing over/tending an estrous doe, Yeah I've done it too but didn't feel it was quite Kosher. Not as bad as shooting a turkey off it's roost or a deer swimming, but close. YMMV.
  #11  
Old 10-06-2016, 06:04 PM
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Hunt deer with dogs ? ? ?

I had about a dozen hounds when I was younger & absolutely kept them off deer --- they were trained for other things --- and now you can't hunt bear with dogs in CA. It seems like there's just no end to the progress our "leaders " are making in ruling our behaviors.
If they want to limit something it could at least be something useful like the size of egos.
  #12  
Old 10-06-2016, 10:39 PM
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My friend has just spent a fortune on a little box which when switched on shows on a screen anything within a couple of hundred yards which is warm bodied, even through undergrowth. He thinks it is the bees knees. Personally part of experience of hunting for me is 'anticipation' and this bit of kit kills all of that.
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2016, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
A warning from one Yankee to another??? Hunting deer & hogs with dogs is a VERY old Southern tradition. & Trust me you don't want GRANNY CLAMPETT to hear you and have us a flare up of the "WAR OF NORTHERN AGRESSION." I'm pretty much 100% with KB, dogs for birds & hogs sure, deer, not as much. A sleeping/bedded deer, or a deer standing over/tending an estrous doe, Yeah I've done it too but didn't feel it was quite Kosher. Not as bad as shooting a turkey off it's roost or a deer swimming, but close. YMMV.
I did spoil the day for a large stinky boar one morning on The Nail Ranch , Texas. We had stalked and followed this sounder of pigs for some time trying to get a shot at the boar which was obviously besotted by a certain sow. Eventually it persuaded all the lesser younger boars to clear off and mounted the sow giving me a perfect sideways shot. My guide was worried I might hit the sow but at 60yrds, sat down with cross sticks, the 458 Win Mag 360 grainer ran true and the sow turned around and looked a bit startled, before bolting into the distance with the rest. I must admit I did feel a bit mean to spoil his day. My guide and the crew at The Nail found it hilarious.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2016, 01:18 AM
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Every party has a pooper,

That's why we invited you, PARTY POOPER. If the sty is rockin, don't come knockin.
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  #15  
Old 10-07-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysclockgun View Post
Not too long ago, I read of a group of men that rigged a .50cal. rifle on a solid base, mounted in a truck bed. They set up with a Swedish artillery range finder. One of those devices where the optics are about four feet apart. They ranged a bull elk, that was laying down in the snow at about one mile distant. They then picked a patch of snow, to the left or right of the elk, doesn't matter, but far enough away that the impact of the bullet would not concern the bull in the least. They then fired on that patch, noting each hit, until they had the scope dialed in for the range on that distant bull. Swinging the rifle scope onto the bull, they shot him........
Let's not call this 'hunting'. It is spotting and shooting. At least they did take prior shots in the snow patches to walk their shots in for the conditions. They did more than many others that tried similar. The meaning of hunting is still evolving. This is just not for me, not for big game. Varmints are another subject.

As Sus relates, anticipation is part of the hunt for me; the unknown. Stumbling upon or stalking a bull or buck. The long range shooter loses that.
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Old 10-09-2016, 04:52 AM
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Many of the gadgets are designed to make up for lack of skill and make money for the manufacturers. I don't have one, but using longbow or recurve probably demands to most from a hunter in the "hunting" as opposed to "marksmanship" skills to be successfull - compound bow probably close.

I use a scoped centerfire for most of my big game hunting, but also muzzle-loader and compound bow. My current hunting is now almost entirely "ambush" or "spot and stalk", but have (successfully) participated in organized hunter drives and deer and bear hunting with dogs (where legal) and see nothing inhumane about them in appropriate areas where legal.

I agree for the most part with the OP as far as pursuits limited by what is legal, but would add the requirement of "humane". Most harvests by a competent hunter are more humane than the kills by a natural predator.

Last edited by Irv S; 10-09-2016 at 05:00 AM.
  #17  
Old 10-09-2016, 07:25 AM
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I don't know of any predator, in my neck of the woods , that terrorises it's quarry more than wolves. They are eaten while still alive. It's always been my goal to kill a critter quickly and avoid suffering. The older I get the softer my heart (and head) get. I burn up a lot of powder before the season. I also carry a wolf tag
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2016, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sus Scrofa View Post
I did spoil the day for a large stinky boar one morning on The Nail Ranch , Texas. We had stalked and followed this sounder of pigs for some time trying to get a shot at the boar which was obviously besotted by a certain sow. Eventually it persuaded all the lesser younger boars to clear off and mounted the sow giving me a perfect sideways shot. My guide was worried I might hit the sow but at 60yrds, sat down with cross sticks, the 458 Win Mag 360 grainer ran true and the sow turned around and looked a bit startled, before bolting into the distance with the rest. I must admit I did feel a bit mean to spoil his day. My guide and the crew at The Nail found it hilarious.
If your time is up, I can't think of a better way to go.

As for all of the technology and gadgetry, I have used a lot of it, but now choose to skip most of it. Regular members know I spend a lot of time and money making habitat improvements on the properties my family and I own, including food plots. We also cut shooting lanes into thick cover and set up permanent shooting blinds. We're a lot more successful than we used to be, as a result of all this work done before the season, but I don't consider that as being unsporting, since the benefits are there for wildlife all year long.

On more than a few hunts, in recent years, I have gone out of my way to leave my pack at home, fitting the handful of things I actually need during a hunt into the pockets of my pants or coat. It's a liberating feeling to not have that weight on your back; just a rifle in your hands and a bit more spring in your step. My buddies really like the range finders and the game cameras or their laser scopes. I think hunting might actually be more enjoyable when you're not lugging any of that stuff around.

The one exception I will make is the huge advances in clothing made over the last 30 years, or so. I take full advantage of Thinsulate and Goretex products to stay warm and dry during the hunt.
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  #19  
Old 10-10-2016, 06:03 PM
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This is the second thread the OP has started and not come back to... started one 3 days before this in rifles/cartridges that has 5 pages of replies, so he has been back to the board by virtue of starting this one.

Good question though to start the thread. Lots to think about with regards to fairness, ethics, and what belongs/doesn't belong in Fair-chase hunting.

Sure knows how to get guys talking, must be absorbing a lot of info or not liking what anyone has to say!

Last edited by hbonser; 10-10-2016 at 06:11 PM.
  #20  
Old 10-12-2016, 11:51 AM
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I've been getting flack from unsuccessful hunters for many years now, been called a cheater, you name it.

Most of this obviously stems from those who go into the field knowing little more than what the game they're hunting looks like, and even then I've heard of horses and cattle being accidentally mistaken for a deer or elk. Bottom line we fill tags and they come home empty handed and beat half to death from walking aimlessly every day up and down the mountains.

What we've been employing for all these years is the use of quality optics, spotting scopes, glasses, range finders, and rifle scopes, thus spotting game at extreme distances, thus giving us the advantage. Then there's a spotter who guides the hunter in with radios and ear buds. Before the existence of affordable & reliable radio's we used flags to signal the hunter. Yet even then we were deemed as cheaters.

Fair chase to me means by what ever legal means can be employed, nothing more.

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