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Just what is the max eff range for a .45 Lever gun?

28K views 25 replies 18 participants last post by  Gunnut45/454 
#1 ·
Hello all,
I have an Uberti made 1860 Henry Rifle in .45 Colt. I know that is not an authentic cartridge for that gun. But does anyone know what the "Maximum Effective Range" for the .45 Long Colt fired in a Rifle like that with its relative long barrel? Would it be safe to shoot at say a deer at 300 yards? Just curious.
Thanks,
Freebooter
 
#2 ·
I'd bet a heavy slug driven at safe velocities from your 1860 would poke a hole right thru that deer at 300 yards -- heavy slugs = lots of momentum. I'm also sure that the holdover required for such a shot would be calculated in multiple feet. In short, the gun/load combination would be in no way practical for such shooting -- but a whole lot of fun to play with on the range. Out to 100 yards, no problem.
 
#3 ·
Thanks Pisgah,
I shoot 250 grn semi flat nose bullet in my pistol and my Henry. Sometimes I shoot store bought rounds and sometimes I shoot BP in them ( I reload those). My Henry has a stand up ladder type rear sight on it for long range, but I have never tested it out, just shooting at 100 with the bottom or 100 yard setting. One day I will try it at a longer range.
Thanks,
FB
Alabama
 
#4 ·
Freebooter
If you have a ladder site, give it a go. As stated above hold over will be great, but you have a sight made for long range shoots! The real limiting factor for you is your arm is not made for heavy loads. So at 150-300 yard your slug is going to running pretty slow! Give it a shot and let us see your targets.
 
#7 ·
With the pressure and velocity available in your Henry, it would be unethical to attempt shots on deer at more than about 60-70 yards. On a nice dusty prairie, 300 yard shots at a noisy metal gong will be blast. Just for fun when you get to that 300 yard range, check the time of flight from shot to hit. An egg timer will serve almost as well as a stopwatch. Use good judgement and have fun.
 
#9 ·
Actual Ballistics

I see a lot of speculation regarding the question being asked. I decided to run the ballistics to provide some numbers.

Assumptions, a 255gr bullet with a G1 B.C. of .200 at a muzzle velocity of 1,100 fps, standard atmosheric conditions and iron sights with a line of sight 1.0" above the bore. Time of flight to 300yds is 0.960 seconds. Velocity at 300yds is 830 fps and remaining energy is 390 ftlbs. Given that the same bullet from a handgun travelling at 830 fps will go in one side and out the other of a deer, velocity or energy are not the limiting factors. Trajectory is.

With a 100 yd zero, the bullet path is as follows:

50yds +3.6"
100yds 0.0
150yds -12.7"
200yds -35.3"
250yds -68.8"
300yds -114.0"

With a 200yd zero, the bullet path is as follows:
50yds +12.4"
100yds +17.7"
150yds +13.8"
200yds 0.0"
250yds - 24.7"
300yds - 61.0"

With a 300yd zero, the bullet path is as follows:
50yds +22.6"
100yds +38.0"
150yds +44.3"
200yds +40.7"
250yds +26.2"
300yds 0.0"

Range estimation is a key skill for long range shooting with these slow movers. Even a 20 yard error is enough to mean a miss on a deer when shooting at 300yards. For example, if your sights are dead on for 300yards and the deer is actually 280 yards away, the bullet will be 11.9" above the point of aim. If the deer is 320 yards away, the bullet will be 14.0" below the point of aim.

Also note that increasing the muzzle velocity to 1,700fps (well beyond the capabilities of the rifle in question) would only reduce the error by 7.2" over and 8.5" under, respectively.

Best Regards

Kanuck
 
#10 · (Edited)
Kanuck
Agreed -I never said it wouldn't kill a deer-it would just be dammed hard to hit one at 300 yds!! I own and shoot a Win '94 in 45 LC. Great shooter, I have wacked Wissel pigs out too 150yds- thats a 1x6" target! Obviously the rifle is scope for this duty. Now as far as how far I'd shoot at a deer-My limit is 150-175yds with a good solid rest that's using a 255 gr SWC/ 250 XTP running at 1600-1700 fps! As anything further is getting pretty ify as far as bullet drop. With open sights I'd drop that back to 100 yds max!
 
#11 ·
It is strange to hear about hunting with weak loads at 300 yards and stay it would be a good killer when it connected when the fact is energy yield would be pretty low too and while a kill is possible, everything would have to be just right otherwise the likely result would be a wounding or maiming and not responsible hunting. Be difference between lobbing a 250 grain bullet from a 45 colt at a 300 yard target or a 500 grain one from a 45/90 with a similar trajectory. The far heavier 500 grain pill would hit far harder and have a much higher ballistic coefficient and looses less energy as range grows. It is safe to say that a 45/90 with a 500 grain pill would hit far harder at 600 yards than a 45 colt at even 200 yards. If you want to make those rainbow trajectory shoots, know your range and trajectory well and make them with a cartridge that delivers sectional density and energy too at those ranges.
 
#12 ·
Some years ago, I ran a number of tests with an 8x scoped S&W .44 mag at 100 to 200 yards. I used a 240 grain bullet at 1365 fps and a 100 yard zero with results very closely matching Kanucks data. 150 yards was a 12 inch drop and 200 yards was a 31 inch drop. I quickly concluded that 200 yards was out of the question for me, regardless of the range finder, etc. equipment I had, and the 150 yard target required a range finder and decent sized target. I've never gone beyond 100 yards since then.

Dan
 
#13 ·
I've taken a Musk Ox at 80 yards with a 41 Magnum and the 265 grain cast bullet. Complete penetration. Musk Ox on the hoof will go anywhere from 450 pounds to 700 pounds.
 
#14 ·
I wonder if we've misunderstood the original question?
Hello all,
Would it be safe to shoot at say a deer at 300 yards?
Safe for you, or safe for the deer? I should think, unless you get in a lot of practice, the deer would be quite safe at 300 yards! :D

All kidding aside, It's my firm opinion that iron sight shooting and compensating for bullet drop are fast becoming lost arts among rifle shooters, with all our super magnums, rangefinding reticles, and other gadgets. It's not that it isn't possible, it's just that few people seem to practice it anymore, and many flat out recommend against it. I see a lot of articles now that talk about max effective range for a rifle based on zero hold-over.

Truth is, a one-gun shooter, that practices a lot, can make hits at much further ranges than most would believe. It does take a LOT of skill, and practice, practice, practice, but it's amazing how well the human brain can estimate distance and bullet drop when properly trained.

I guess my point is, yes, you can probably kill deer at that range with that 45 Colt, but if you have to ask about it on the internet, you probably aren't there yet. Go shoot it a lot, and someday you might be. :)
 
#15 ·
Must have been mild loads or a short barrel of questionable data. Hornady #4 manual shows 1450fps with a 240 grain is quite doable in a 7.5 inch Blackhawk and if scoped and the scope center line of sight about 2.5 inches above barrel, with a 125 yard zero your bullet would be within 3 inches on aiming point or less from muzzle to almost 150 yards. With a 100 yard zero it would be within 2 inches to about 120 yards. A 200 grain at 1600 FPS would shoot a little bit flatter (reduce drop by about 2.5 inches to less than 5 inches drop at 150 yards with a 100 yard zero) You need to remember when looking at trajectory tables, most are based on iron sight close to bore not a extended sight center further from bore which changes the trajectory relative to line of sight.
 
#17 ·
Must have been mild loads or a short barrel of questionable data. Hornady #4 manual shows 1450fps with a 240 grain is quite doable in a 7.5 inch Blackhawk and if scoped and the scope center line of sight about 2.5 inches above barrel, with a 125 yard zero your bullet would be within 3 inches on aiming point or less from muzzle to almost 150 yards. With a 100 yard zero it would be within 2 inches to about 120 yards. A 200 grain at 1600 FPS would shoot a little bit flatter (reduce drop by about 2.5 inches to less than 5 inches drop at 150 yards with a 100 yard zero) You need to remember when looking at trajectory tables, most are based on iron sight close to bore not a extended sight center further from bore which changes the trajectory relative to line of sight.
You are missing one VERY salient point here, Sir. The rifle in question has the weakest action of any sold and CANNOT take the loads to which you refer. NONE ATALL, as only a few will destroy that rifle .
I have the same situation with my Uberti ' 66 in 45COLT and cater to it's whims with ONLY the old style standard handloads ie: 250GR LFN bullets at 1050FPS or so with loads meant for the original COLT SAA 45COLT pistols in which they fly at 950FPS or so.
 
#18 ·
Will Terry is right on the money.The rifle in question should be considered safe with loads absolutely no more powerful than the original .45 Colt load. Barrel length may confer upon such loads a bit more velocity than they'd achieve out of a revolver, but just a few -- maybe just one -- of the "Ruger only" loads could wreck it!
 
#20 · (Edited)
How far away can you hit 9 out of 10 milk jugs (1 gal.) from field positions (shooting sticks are O.K. but no benchrest)?

Test yourself with your chosen ammo at longer and longer ranges until you fall below 9 out of 10 and that's your answer, IMHO, assuming you are talking about deer. Change to 1/2 gal. milk cartons to find max. range on larger varmints like coyote and groundhog. Soda cans for squirrel and rabbits, etc.

The .45 cal. (big bore) bullet will do it's job out to YOUR effective marksmanship range. Remember, 9 of 10, not 5 or 6 out of 10.
 
#21 · (Edited)
54cal
I get 1771fps for my hunting load -240XTP! That's 3" high at 100yds dead on at 150 yds 3 " low at 175yds with 997 fpe! More then enough energy to take dear/bear/elk! That's about the same FPE as a 44 Mag at the muzzle! I don't think your saying a 44 Mag is not good enough to take these animal are you?

Too the OP DON"T even try these loads in your rifle! Your max velocity is 1100 fps!
 
#23 ·
I shoot a Win 94 Legacy with 24" barrel in 45 Colt. My shooting buddy has the same and we have an perpetual match going at the 6"x6" gong, 125yds. Using the factory sights on a good day we get 4/5 or 8/10 hits. Don't think either has gone 10/10 yet (unless shooting alone then the liars gene kicks in.)

I would doubt 200 or more yards would be consistant enought to hunt with, open sights.

Lots of fun to try.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Hello all,
I have an Uberti made 1860 Henry Rifle in .45 Colt. I know that is not an authentic cartridge for that gun. But does anyone know what the "Maximum Effective Range" for the .45 Long Colt fired in a Rifle like that with its relative long barrel? Would it be safe to shoot at say a deer at 300 yards? Just curious.
Thanks,
Freebooter

Safe for whom, the Deer or the shooter? IMHO it would definately not be safe for the Deer.
 
#25 ·
I can put a box of rounds from my Marlin cowboy in the kill zone at 100 yards, but as everyone else said, there is serious drop after that. And with iron sights a deer looks about the size of my front sight at 300. I would also like to hear from someone about the kill capacity of the 45 at 300 yards; I mean someone who has done it! If it travels that slow and has that much drop just how much damage can the big slug do. Or is it slugg?
 
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