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  #1  
Old 08-27-2005, 05:57 PM
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Practical Hunting Rifle Accuracy


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Comment on this Open Sight article:

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  #2  
Old 08-27-2005, 06:05 PM
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Another great article Marshall... good job!
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:39 PM
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This is one I totally agree with....that's kind of rare for a COB (cranky old b.)
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2005, 07:20 PM
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An excellent article. I agree with the premise completely. This is why I have tried never to take shots on game (in the past) beyond 250 yards. Now, as I only shoot an-iron-sighted rifle (I've gotten more traditional in my old age)....I won't consider shots beyond 150 yards (and usually, no more than 125 yards...in actual practice).
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2005, 08:12 PM
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A 2.5 inch group at 100 yards means the bullet will hit within 1.25 inch of where you are aiming. Thats close enough for me. I carry small binos and use a 2 and 3/4 power scout scope. If it looks too small in that scope, its too far for me.
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2005, 01:52 PM
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ironhead,
I'm right there with you on this. If I can get consistent 2" - 2.5" groups at 100 yards.....I'm quite happy with that. Sometimes, on off days, I can't quite manage it (a few fliers). But, that's ME, not the rifle.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2005, 05:54 AM
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Yes a great article. I remember seeing a similar one on Chuck Hawks site. I think the problem with many hunters today and in the age of super magnums, they believe since their new 300 super ultra mach magnum has enough energy to kill an elk at 1000 yards, that's how far they can shoot. They seem to forget the weak link is them as the shooter.

I was at an ammo sale last year at a local sporting goods store and an older gentleman was asking the clerk how far a certain 30-06 load would shoot. I asked him how good of a shot was he (I was ignored of course) and the clerk replied 600 yards. The man bought the ammo. My problem was this guy if he shot at all before the season was to sight in his rifle. At most, maybe to verify his zero before the season. Now he goes out to the field believing he can take a deer out to 600 yards. And that IMO is a problem that is getting to be worse and worse is hunters not knowing their or their equipments limits and staying within them. Again, great article.
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:43 AM
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M1 hit the nail on the head. Sure see a lots of folks at the range with those monster magnums sighting their rifles in a a hundred yards and never actually firing at the ranges their talking about shooting game at. They usually never shoot from field positions either.

I'm not putting down the monster mags, I still shoot my Rem 8 mag, but relying on ballistic tables to shoot living creatures at long range seems to insure wounded animals.

I have two friends whom shoot a 300 RUM and a 300 Winchester Mag whom I helped sight in their rifles. Both were sighting in one inch high at a hundred yards, not realizing how much drop this dials into these high performance cartridges at longer range.

Both of these fellas are supurb shots and excellent hunters, but are not using the trajectories of their rifles to optimize hits out to the 350 yards plus these rifles are designed to shoot with out having to worry about holdover.

I also know that as Marshall said I've ended up in the crosshairs of other hunters a few times and have had friends whom were shot at. Perhaps it was better they had such poor shooting skils at long ranges.
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2005, 11:56 AM
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Marhall,Great article.I could never put together an article like that but I have always felt the same way as you. I an ad that,hunting in the woods,Iv'e had rifle sights pointed at me at less then 100 yards.
My personal limit is around 200-250 yards,but I rarely see any game at that rnge.My personal limitation is 'Running Deer' I rarely shoot at them because I'm not that good a shot offhand.
I would much prefer eating 'store bought'meat then worry about a possible wounded deer.
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Old 09-06-2005, 04:57 PM
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I also don't have anything against the magnums, and I'd love nothing better than a good old 8mm Rem Mag. I just don't get the guys who get them and figure they can take potshots at game they have no business shooting at.

I can relate to rounds flying my way as well, I've had it happen twice. Both were several years ago. I'll keep both brief but once while hunting the farm, I was walking to my blind while a neighbor was already in his (problems with another neighbor shooting deer on our property was why I was out) and a small buck was bedded on a hill between us. Well the buck stood up as I approached my blind and was almost in a direct line between us. He was about 100 yards from each of us with the neighbor on the far side about 200 yards away. Well the neighbor decided to start shooting and I hit the dirt. I have to say I almost felt like sending a few his way I was so mad...but I didn't.

Another was just off some property we used to own in northern MI, my cousin and I were stalking a ridge on a cedar swamp and as we entered state land, we heard shots that sounded like they were right on top of us. We started yelling so whomever knew there were people nearby and an old guy comes out and asks if we saw that six point. No we said but you were shooting in our direction. We found what he was shooting at and it was a yearling doe, and of course he had no doe tag. I believe we drove that young deer by the guy and I guess I'm kinda glad because the guy could've opened up on us..who knows. I just have a hard time comprehending why "hunters" have such a hard time ID'ing their target (or beyond) before shooting. I'm kinda surprised there aren't more hunting accidents from what I've seen.
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2005, 05:28 PM
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Some of the reasons for buying the super magnums follows these trains of thought:

Advertising says these guns shoot raygun straight for long distances. I know that when I was younger I always wanted the hottest, baddest, fastest and so forth. Wasn't any real reason for it, but you always envied the guy with the hotrod with the most power. One-up-manship is kind of an American Tradition and it takes some growing up to get over it.

Just because folks don't have the latest whiz-bang magnum does not mean they won't take shots that folks with more game sense won't. You see it in the woods all the time. Lots of times these same folks have just sighted in their rifle at that big white rock at an indeterminate distance, Yup right on, lets shoot that deer over on the other side of the vally.

There are lots of beginners whom just don't know any better. Thats why websites such as this one is so important. It allows us to mentor new hunters and shooters all over the country instead just in our local area.

On the reverse side there are lots of sportsman whom are careful with their rifle, cartridge, shooting distance and shot placement selection. Those folks know there is more to hunting than pointing the gun and going bang.

These are the hunters sharing their knowledge on forums like this and to hunters and folks just getting into hunting. When they do this lets just pray that it's presented in a way that those folks listen.

Thank you Mr. Stanton for a great article and giving us the means to discuss it.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2005, 02:56 AM
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Well said Bob.
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:01 PM
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I can do nothing but agree with you gentlemen on this post !It is one thing to shoot of a bench under controled conditions Vs going out in the field ! At the end of the day how many shooters can really say for sure what range their shooting at once it gets past say the 100yrd mark?I learnt by long & expensive experiance ,that long shots are not always paying shots & I feel this post is once again renforcing the fact that although your rifle is capible of taking game at 300yrds+!Dose'nt mean that you have to try & hit that far out!This is a valuble leason for Newbies & seasoned hunters as well

Dave
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2005, 08:17 PM
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Great artical Marshall

Many do not practice with proper sized animal targets before going afeild.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2005, 06:42 AM
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No matter what I'm useing I limit the length of shot that I am willing to take. Even with the flattest shooting magnum I would not take a shot past about 200 yards. Why? Because too many things can happen, and a blood trail can be difficult enough to find under some conditions.

I use to shoot varmints past this point but stalking and actually hunting the animal have become more important to me lately.

As always your primary concern should be safety and harvesting the animal cleanly. I think that your prmary concern should be accuracy. You don't know what shot you may need to take in the feild and extra power, flat trajectory and all the other stuff goes right out the window if you miss, or worse wound the animal your shooting at. True the bullet must have enough power to do the job but once that is accomplished you have to hit the target.

Hitting a paper plate at 150 yards from the bench is a lot different proposition than in the feild with the target in different relative position to the sun, snow flying, wind, hunter excitement a makeshift rest. With all the variables it is a wonder that as many animals are killed each year. theres no such thing as too much accuracy.

Have you ever heard the excuse"I didn't get my buck cause my rifle is too accurate".
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2005, 08:36 PM
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Hunting accuracy

I enjoy my varmint rifles but when i recently decided to build a "new" hunting rifle, I went with open sights and a .308. Sighted in at two inches high at 100 yards, a hold on the fur at any reasonable range will do the job.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Stanton
Comment on this Open Sight article:

an excellent article! For deep woods hunting, I am planning on hanging up my scoped rifle's and will likely hunt exclusively with a 336 chambered in 35 Remington. If I ever needed to make a 200 yard shot it is certainly capable of doing so, although I have never had a shot over 100 yards in the woods in 25 years of hunting. I am tinkering with the rifle a bit to refine the sites, shoulder weld etc.. And will likely have to load a hundred rounds or so to practice with this setup before I really feel confident with it. The textbook 200 yard trajectory is about 8 inches low with a 100 yards zero. Shooting at long distances is definitely a technical challenge, but that's not the reason I'm out there anymore.

Last edited by northwoods; 01-09-2006 at 03:42 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-18-2007, 02:10 PM
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Thumbs up

I could consider a bull at 800 - 830 yds. with the .340, IF he was lying down and I was sure of the wind (all the way from me to him) and absolutely sure of "everything" between, beside and behind where an errant shot could go, BUT WHY end a "hunt?" like that just because I can consistently hit a 12"X 16" plate at 1000 and my rifle is "on" to the 830 by using the bottom dot ........ far better to close the gap to less than 100 and test my skills v. a critter with much better ears, nose and generations of RNA opposed to being predated on; my binocs will help level the playing field for sight.

Longrange Rifleshooting - I love it, but it isn't hunting.

I always try to hunt where I am alone or with a good friend - I truly hate being "scoped" and being shot at (or near) makes me want to show them what longrange shooting can look like, but exiting is better.

I believe that if you can't see the critter with the naked eye, you shouldn't shoot at it, use binoculars for seeking information, and unless you can positively id it do not even point the firearm at it.

I really appreciated the article.... LRB
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2007, 09:09 PM
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We're at least 2 generations forward in time away from good hunters because we just don't value quality time (as a population) with our elders. So, today's hunters have not had the advantage of dad, or mom, coaching them. I believe my interest in guns stayed dormant until I got out on my own because my dad was simply too busy with his career. As a child of about 5-6 (?) I witnessed my dad use a .30-.30 to shoot a soda can thrown in the air about 10' high. It made a lasting impression on me, but unfortunately we never discussed it or did father/son shooting. People do wizzbang because they believe what they read as there was no mentor to guide to them. As for me now, I'm comfortable with dead animals without a sore shoulder with my easy carrying lever action. And, my daughter and son both have been exposed to shooting. Their interest in shooting comes and goes, but at least my family does spend good quality time with each other outside. A well grounded article to me.
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2007, 11:19 PM
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Weelll. I didn't read all the replies to your post. But, they all seemed positive. My reaction is a bit mixed. You certainly made a good point about the human part being the limiting factor in a set up.

But, Then you went on to illustrate how you had once been a long ranger but had "come full circle". Made mistakes, gained in wisdom, and now see a better way. You further gave examples of a few idiots doing stupid things to validate long range hunting being dangerous and unethical.

I have two hunting passions. One is bowhunting. The other is long range rifle huntng. I understand the intimate nature of bowhunting, and love it. I also enjoy the challenge of long range hunting. Which I will define as, long range shooting at game.

I think the examples you gave illustrate nothing more than the fact some people shouldn't be afield at all. I'll suggest a couple scenarios. You tell me which you'd rather have in the field with you. Let's take Jim and Dave for our first example. Jim and Dave spend a couple evenings a week shooting. They make meticulous handloads. They test thier loads, rifles and equiptment constantly. They scout carefully and plan thier hunt carefully. The plan is to set up in a remote canyon. Jim will shoot first and Dave will spot. They set up thier equiptment carefully, shoot off of solid rests, and know the behavior of the local game.

Bob and Joe on the other hand don't shoot much, don't scout much, and in short are more "typical" hunters. As Bob and Joe walk along they hope to jump a deer and get a shot.

Who's more likely to make a mistake? Who's more likely to wound an animal? Who's going to be taking snap shots?


I don't like the things your article implies about long range hunting. Reminds me a bit of some articles Zumbo wrote recently. Now, I love woodcraft, and the intimate nature of stalking close, and the hunting ethics my dad and grandad taught me. If you think long range hunting can't be done with those same values in mind, you are sadly mistaken. The different types of hunting / shooting appeal to different natures. It is that simple. It is NOT an ehtics/ safety issue any more than any kind of hunting and shooting is.

There is no need to turn up your nose when you hike past the guy who is sitting on a vantage point with a bipod, laser rangefinder, spotting scope, and a partner. They just like to do things different than you. Ask 'em what they saw.

Good hunting.
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