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  #1  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:46 AM
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I have completed a rifle in 270WSM that I am very happy with. The stock fits me well, it is accurate, it is purdy so when nothing else is going on, I can admire my rifle.

Using starting loads, it behaves exactly like a 270 Winchester. Using max loads it shoots the 150 grain bullets at the same speed that a regular 270 will push the 130 grain bullets.

So - Now I am considering a bolt-action rifle to handle smaller animals. (Whitetail, pigs, Barbary sheep, coyote)

I have considered 22-250 and the 243... - I'm kind of leaning toward the 243. I have also looked at the 6.5 Grendel.

My habit is to choose the cartridge first, then start looking at rifles. While not duplicating 270WSM territory, what would be your choice of a companion rifle cartridge for the smaller critters?

The 7mm-08 for example is famous for being almost equivalent to a 270 Winchester - so the 7mm-08 is out.

The rifle will be used for small deer (whitetails) pigs and coyotes. No shots over 300 yards in any case. Maybe a Barbary sheep like the fellow in my avatar. - They are getting to be as big a pest as the pigs are, here in west Texas.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2017, 01:34 AM
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I like the various 6.5mms. I know you had been mulling over a 6.5 grendel before, so why not that? It will handle anything you want to shoot with either 100gr Partitions or 123gr accubonds.


If you want to try something even more exclusive, look into the 6.5x47 Lapua. It is slightly smaller than the 6.5 creedmore, uses small rifle primers, and has a supreme reputation for accuracy. It would be different, and excellent for target, varmint, and medium game.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:39 AM
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If you like the 270 WSM over...

the 270, you'll probably like the 6mm REM over the 243.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2017, 04:11 AM
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Being a .270 WSM fan, you are not afraid to step away from orthodox loadings. I'm with ya there, for in addition to the .308, 7-08, 06s, .22-250s and .223, I have and enjoy loading for 7mm WSM and soon .350 Rem Mag.

Been thinking about a Grendal myself. That would be a fun round. DM makes a great point about the 6.5x47 Lapua as well. I think I agree with him on that being a top option for your requirements.

What you are proposing also just screams .250 Savage AI IMO. It's said to really hit the sweet spot as far as capacity and velocity while maintaining a short action. I have always wanted one.

All three of the above would be a good alternative to a .243, which I'm just not really a huge fan of. If you want to go 6mm, consider a 6mm BR or PPC. Actually, my gunsmith/rifle builder, in addition to having three Creedmore 700 build projects going (that round has caught fire in these parts), is also building a 6mm Bench Rest Long at the moment. The case prep for that round is more than I would want to mess with though personally.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2017, 04:20 AM
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There of course is the OLD German 6.5x68 Schuler, as a companion to the 8x68S,long before the .264 WinMag and the 8mm Rem Magnum came into existence. There also is a 6x68 based on the 68 mm Schuler case. Problem is no US made brass is thick enough for reforming these, but RWS makes excellent cases to work from.

The 6.5x58 Portuguese Mauser existed when the diameter was not even dreamed about and which is a fair step in front of the excellent .260 Remington.

Based on the .280 Remington, you can try and duplicate the 8x64 and 9.3x64 Brenneke - the latter which exactly equals the .375 H&H, all these derived from the 7x64 Brenneke case.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:06 AM
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My vote is for the .257 Roberts. A true classic that has more upside (IMHO) than either the 6mm or .243.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:34 AM
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I would suggest the 25-06. Perfect for deer even past 300.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:38 AM
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Plus 1 on the 25cals & 6.5mm(s) and calibers Musgraveman mentioned. Bullet selection for hunting bullets is better, both cup and core and bonded. While I've never hunted pigs or Barbary sheep, I've shot several northern large bodied deer(muleys and whitetails) with a 6mm Improved, and bullet placement and shot angle is very critical. I know bullet placement is critical on every animal, but at 300yds on anything less than completely broadside with a 6mm is even more so. The bullet weight and energy to plow through bone and still reach deep into the vitals just isin't there. Most times we as hunters, are looking for older age class animals, and with age comes heavier bone structure, and bulkier muscle tissue. Add shot distance to thicker, heavier built specimens of any species, and it just makes sense to use a caliber up to the task....you will never regret being a little overgunned for whatever you're hunting..... Just my experience !
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:56 AM
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What else to consider?

WANTS/ DON'T WANT'S??? Platform, barrel length, long/short action, weight, ammo/brass availability in Texas??? If you load the 270wsm with light - heavy bullets, that covers a lot of ground. TO ME a 223 is efficient, not a real bbl burner, easily available, comes in a wide variety of platforms & barrel lengths. I'm a 25-06 fan too IF you have a 24-26" barrel. I'm not very familiar with the "newer" (>1980's LOL) & European 6-6.5mm's. Plenty of options, ain't we lucky.

Last edited by nachogrande; 01-11-2017 at 07:04 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2017, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesB View Post
1) nI have completed a rifle in 270WSM that I am very happy with.

2) Using starting loads, it behaves exactly like a 270 Winchester. Using max loads it shoots the 150 grain bullets at the same speed that a regular 270 will push the 130 grain bullets.

3) I have considered 22-250 and the 243... - I'm kind of leaning toward the 243. I have also looked at the 6.5 Grendel.
My habit is to choose the cartridge first, then start looking at rifles. While not duplicating 270WSM territory, what would be your choice of a companion rifle cartridge for the smaller critters?
The rifle will be used for small deer (whitetails) pigs and coyotes. No shots over 300 yards in any case. Maybe a Barbary sheep like the fellow in my avatar. - They are getting to be as big a pest as the pigs are, here in west Texas.

4) The 7mm-08 for example is famous for being almost equivalent to a 270 Winchester - so the 7mm-08 is out.
1) I'm glad for you!
2) That's not really a fair comparison, because your WSM is over-pressure. Putting a blower on a a fiat and racing a stock 6-cyl mustang, doesn't mean that a Fiat is faster than a Mustang.
3) Unless you want to do some real volume shooting, your WSM can easily do all of that. But for coyotes, the Grendel is a good varmint round for those distances, or for light deer. The perk is that it won't take a mountain of powder and can do higher volumes of fire without melting the barrel.
4) Not really. This is a "mine is better than yours" argument of nuance, and specifics. If you are talking heavy match bullets, then the 7mm bore has much better BC. It launches much slower than the 270 thus having less energy, but is technically more efficient from a bullet standpoint. All of this is irrelevant at 300 yards anyway. At those distances, a pie plate and a super-swinging-sexy bullet aren't enough different to cause any sleep to be lost.

So do you want a new caliber? Fantastic, get one!!
Does it matter which? Only to you if you give some specifics, but not in terms of generality or what you listed for quarry and distance.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnhunter View Post
My vote is for the .257 Roberts. A true classic that has more upside (IMHO) than either the 6mm or .243.
That was actually my first thought, although I also like the idea of the Grendel.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane256 View Post
That was actually my first thought, although I also like the idea of the Grendel.
I remember when I posted about the possibility of one day arguing this very issue...

NOT the 6.5x57, NOT the 6mm Remington (6x55) - that one right there in between the 6mm and the 6.5mm, the .257 Roberts - that 6.35x57 is the perfect one...
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:18 AM
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Confused, please clarify

IF NOT hunting the imported exotics in Texas, I'm guessing your 270wsm is for deer/hogs? The NEW rifle/caliber would be for the "smaller critters" to 300 yards, the biggest being yotes & peccary??? Many 22 calibers should work fine for those "smaller critters": 222, 223,swift,hornet,k hornet,22-250, etc. Out in windy plains? A heavier bullet/larger caliber (>6.5mm?) Would anything over 22 caliber be considered over gunned? You could shoot anything in Texas dead as dirt to 300 yards with a 308, OR BIGGER. So who said life is fair? Use what you want, no judgement from me.
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:49 AM
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If you're looking for a varmint rifle that's also up to the job for deer sized game, my suggestion and choice would be the 6mm Remington, especially if you download. It's a wonderful cartridge for varmints such as groundhogs and coyotes and is more than adequate for deer sized game. If you reload you'll have the advantage over the 243 in terms of case capacity.

I've taken numerous deer with my 6mm Remington and more than my fair share of varmints.
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:01 AM
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In addition to TNHunter's excellent recommendation of the 257 Roberts, I have to question why you wouldn't just use the 270WSM for everything but the coyotes? It's not like it's too much rifle for whitetails or auodad, and depending on what size hogs you're hunting, the 270WSM is a very good choice. This is especially true if you load down the 270WSM with 110gr bullets meant for the 6.8SPC...it's a very versatile cartridge.

The only critter you listed that I'd feel over-gunned with is the coyote. For those, a hot 22 or any of the 24's would be plenty of gun, with a significant reduction in recoil. Depending on the distances involved, anything from a 223 to a 25-'06 would be suitable for yotes.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:20 AM
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Agree, but if a pelt is in the plan then stay away from the 25-06. A 87gr TNT will almost cut them in half.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:40 AM
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The 243 WSSM sorta makes sense as an answer to your question CB. I imagine you looked that way though. Fun that you let us suggest stuff. I vote 6mm Remington.

Cheezywan
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
In addition to TNHunter's excellent recommendation of the 257 Roberts, I have to question why you wouldn't just use the 270WSM for everything but the coyotes? It's not like it's too much rifle for whitetails or auodad, and depending on what size hogs you're hunting, the 270WSM is a very good choice. This is especially true if you load down the 270WSM with 110gr bullets meant for the 6.8SPC...it's a very versatile cartridge.

The only critter you listed that I'd feel over-gunned with is the coyote. For those, a hot 22 or any of the 24's would be plenty of gun, with a significant reduction in recoil. Depending on the distances involved, anything from a 223 to a 25-'06 would be suitable for yotes.
Well I'll tell you why Broom, if it's anything like my 7mm WSM, it's just not a lot of fun to shoot more than a half dozen times. Of course I'm shooting mostly 150s and 160s, but I assume a .270 WSM with 150s will be similar. Of course you could load down, but you're left with a lot of unnecessary brass and case space. With a varmint/plinking gun, you want to be able to go out and shoot 30 times+ for practice/load development/sheer fun. The Grendel, .250 Savage, 6.5x47, and 6mm PPC/BR give you all this, as well as good downrange performance and barrel life. Great rounds for reloading too.
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  #19  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:00 PM
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I decided that the dual-use cartridge thing was holding me back. - So I ordered a .308 to handle the upper end, and will have to decide between .204 Ruger, .222 and .223 for the varmint rifle.

The .308 is a 24" bolt action, a Weatherby Vanguard II in frosted stainless steel, a model that is getting to be hard to find. It has the synthetic stock, a good one by most reports, but this will not prevent me from replacing it with walnut or laminate.

With the .308 on hand, I can set the scope on my .270WSM for the max 150 grain loads and let the .308 handle anything too small or too close for the 270 WSM. - A separate rifle in 204, 223 or 222 will handle the varmints just fine.

It will take me a while to get the .308 squared away, so the varmint rifle will have to wait for at least a few weeks. This Vanguard should serve well as a backup for the 270WSM. The .308 is a competent round, and the 24" barrel will help it get heavier bullets up to speed. I would like to experiment with cast bullets in the .308, once the barrel is broken in.

I'd like to use the new Howa Mini-1500 rifle for the varmint gun, probably with a heavy barrel. - I haven't decided about the cartridge yet.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:02 PM
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Congratulations! The two Vanguard S2s I've worked with were both excellent shooters and #3 is at the LGS awaiting pick-up.
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