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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Went through all of this nonsense back in the 80s with bean bags out of shotguns and grenade launchers. Now at close quarters they would knock the stuffing out of you, but not to be suggested for use against an armed assailant.
 

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This seems to be a "inert Projectile Pistol Powered 'Grenade Launcher' " in purpose similar to the WW2 Rifle Grenade.
And If it 'captures' a normal pistol Bullet as it's propelling impulse, how will it perform with a +P+ load?

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

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I live just across the Missouri river from Ferguson... saw this on the news last night and all I could do was shake my head. Really?
 

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What difference would that have made is this scenario? Hopefully Wilson would have been able to finish the job and defend himself with the remaining rounds in his clip. You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop in that cess pool in any case.
 

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Well, think back a couple of years. USBP Agent Brian Terry and crew, who were more than highly trained and heavily armed (with one exception) jumped a group of armed bad guys. All could have gone well, but here is the exception mentioned above-- they were ordered by a "higher" source to engage the bad guys with "less than lethal" ammunition in the shotguns. Now, not everyone was armed with a shotgun, some had M4's, but the shotgun was the initial engagement weapon. The "less than lethal" ammo afforded the bad guys the split-second they needed to get off their own "lethal" shots. One of which found it's mark on Agent Terry. Now, the Monday Morning QB might say that if the shotgun had been loaded appropriately with 00Buck, the outcome might have been more in favor of the agents. But, who knows, we were not part of the "team" involved.

Allen
 

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Interesting and sad story Allen. It reminds me, some time after I got home from Afghanistan in 04-05, several friends of mine deployed and returned from Iraq. They told me of stories catching the enemy burying roadside bombs, but having to call back the the TOC for approval to fire (after being vetted by JAG lawyers). In other words, the decision to fire was taken away from crews and commanders. It was at that point, without any doubt, that I knew we had lost the war in Iraq (a fact ISIS is proving to this very day).
 
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Just posting before the thread gets locked...

Seriously, if that orange thing is with what police officers will respond to a call, the funeral business in Ferguson-- and in every town that chooses such a useless and stupid option-- will soon be swamped with business from municipal police departments. If I'm a crook and I know that dumb thing is all I'll face, I'm going to commit my crime with some serious firepower. The cops might as well throw cans of soup at the crooks, for as good as that moronic thing is. Political correctness will cost the lives of our men in blue...
 

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I worked as a contract security officer for DHS for 5 years. We were instructed that the sidearm comes out only when deadly force is justified. It seems to me that using a device like this not only sends a mixed message to officers but may also cause hesitation while the officer decides what "snap on" tool to place on his firearm. Idiotic is the only word that comes to mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
One of the things that concerns me about this is police over coming training. Isn't it drilled into their heads to "double tap" when being attacked?
 

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Another thought...

So that orange ball thing is non-lethal. OK; I get shot in the eye and blinded for life while I was committing a felony. I'm going to sue the officer who shot me, the Captain on watch at the time I was shot, the entire Police Department using it, the manufacturer of the ball thing, the manufacturer of the sidearm that propelled it, the manufacturer of the blank cartridge it uses, and the shopowner or motorist who called the police on my criminal activity. I may be blind, but I'll be rich because I'll most likely get off on a technicality. Welcome to America after Ferguson...

More thinking: So I'm gonna get shot with a non-lethal projectile? I'll just go to a sports store and buy some body armor long-haired kids use to skateboard. Chest protection. Eye protection. 'Nads protection. Problem solved. "Shoot me, copper! You can't hurt me! And now I'll shoot you with my lethal projectiles!!" This is what I see coming...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
More thinking: So I'm gonna get shot with a non-lethal projectile? I'll just go to a sports store and buy some body armor long-haired kids use to skateboard. Chest protection. Eye protection. 'Nads protection. Problem solved. "Shoot me, copper! You can't hurt me! And now I'll shoot you with my lethal projectiles!!" This is what I see coming...
:D:D:D I laughed harder than I should of at that.
 

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You get hit in the wrong spot with that thing, and you may not wake up. When will people learn to comply.
 

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One of the things that concerns me about this is police over coming training. Isn't it drilled into their heads to "double tap" when being attacked?
We actually trained as if the perp was wearing armor....two center mass then one to the head.
 

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I went to the manufacturers website out of curiosity.

Alternative Ballistics - Alternative to Lethal Force - Alternative Ballistics

One of the banner captions touted is this...

THE ALTERNATIVETM

has been thoroughly tested
with years of Law Enforcement
and Special Forces feedback
on design and function.

Yet according to the article originally posted by Walt45,
"Christian Ellis, the owner of the company that manufacturers the equipment, admitted to the Post that no human being has ever been shot by the devices with which Ferguson police will soon be training."
That really doesn't sit too well when I try to digest it.

Also if you look, there is a simulated video available to demonstrate how effective the device can be. When they say simulated, they mean just that, it is basically like watching my sons play a video game on their PS3.

Knowing that in real life a split second can mean the difference between life and death, I'm a little ashamed that anyone would ask an officer of the law who has sworn to protect our society and ourselves, to utilize something like this much less demand that they do.

*just shakes my head*
 

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These are similar to the 'people' who spend Days in Court directing an OIS micro second by microsecond to find some reason to declare the Officer was Wrong in his decision to use Lethal Force to subdue the Armed and Advancing Suspect before the Officer received any injury.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 
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