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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can you guys in the know explain the difference as far as shooting roundballs and accuracy. I can get a used Lyman GPR with a 1-66 twist or a new Green Mountain barrel in 1-70 twist for my T/C Hawken for about the same amount.

Thanks!!!!
 

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Both are roundball barrel twists. It must be an old Lyman barrel because they have been 1-60 I thought, for a number of years. If you do get the Lyman you can also order a 1-32 twist barrel to shoot conicals that will go right into that stock.
 

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The bigger the ball, the slower the twist needed to stablize it. Either will be OK at .54 caliber and above. I like the quality of Green Mountain barrels.
 

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I agree. If you were to get a GM barrel in .50 caliber, that is stretching it too far. I think a .50 caliber GM barrel is 1:70 twist rate not the 1:60 rate that it really should be.
 

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I would base the decision which rifle you like better. The twist rate while it is a difference it is is an incremental difference not a deciding factor for most shooters perhaps except the match shooters.
 

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The difference in twist wouldn't be a concern for me. You've got to work out your load with any new barrel, anyway.

But, those Green Mountain TC replacement barrels are darned nice. I had a .45 and a .32 with the Green Mountain barrels, and feel like hanging myself every time I think about selling them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Both are roundball barrel twists. It must be an old Lyman barrel because they have been 1-60 I thought, for a number of years. If you do get the Lyman you can also order a 1-32 twist barrel to shoot conicals that will go right into that stock.
cayugad,

My mistake, you are correct the Lyman does have a 1-60 twist.

The bigger the ball, the slower the twist needed to stabilize it. Either will be OK at .54 caliber and above. I like the quality of Green Mountain barrels

The Lyman is a .54, and the GM replacement barrel is for my T/C .54 caliber Hawken.

I finally got out and shot my new T/C yesterday for about an hour. I have not had that much fun in a long time at our shooting range. I had the 100 yard range all to myself (cold & rainy) I had only a couple of hip cups, the first was a misfire after about 6-7 shots, and I had a VERY hard time getting the patch ball down my barrel. The Buffalo Bore conicals went down a lot easier. I actually had to push the rod against the beam holding up the roof to get them down, but boy did they shoot.
I was shooting off the bench at 25 & 50 yards and at 25 yards 2 shots were almost in the same hole, and the third opened it up to 1/2 inch.
At fifty I had a 3 shot group under an inch:D To be honest with you I was not excepting this kind of performance. My load was 80 grains of Goex, Hornady RB .530, and a pre-lubed .015 patch.
The Buffalo Bore went down easier, but I had a 3 inch group at 50 yards, oh well:(

The reason I am asking about the barrels and twist is that I am really happy with the way the RB are shooting with my 1-48 twist, and I love to experiment so I thought this would give me a reason and a excuse.
 

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I had a VERY hard time getting the patch ball down my barrel.
Was that a hard time from the get go or was it after the 6-7 shots?
If it was the former - you should not have to push the rod aaginst the ceiling - try a thinner patch. If it was after the six shots, do you swab the barrel between shots? At the range, I run a patch saturated with alcohol down between shots. That helps keep fouling to a minimum.
Another practice to try (though it will affect accuracy perhaps) is to go to a bare round ball when the fouling builds up. It's good to know how the gun will shoot that way in any case.
Changing the powder from FFg to FFFg will help with fouling - drop your charge by 10%.

Pete
 

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I have a T/C Hawken and replaced the original bbl with a Green Mtn bbl and I am so happy with the GMB for roundball shooting, tight patch a ball and it will cut shots at 50yds all day. I swab with antifreeze every two or three shots with BP, every 5 or 6 with 777. The GMB has performed consistently and made a nice rifle great. I'd go with the GMB.
 

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If the rifle starts to load hard after six shots or so... take some isopropyl alcohol and put that on a patch. Then swab the bore in 2-3 inch sections to the breech. Flip that patch and do it all over again. The reason I use pure isopropyl alcohol in a traditional rifle is because as we all know, alcohol dries very fact. Then a couple dry patches. Then just pop a cap or two. Load again, and it should load real easy.

I have to smile when you were telling about shooting. I always see it when someone shoots a muzzleloader for the first time. That BOOM!!! and then the smoke is just more then a kid could ask for. And your accuracy does not surprise me. You have a good load there. That would knock a deer flat.

I have several Green Mountain barrels. Every one of them is a good shooter. But never under estimate a Lyman Great Plains rifle. My friend shoots one with roundball and it is a very good shooter. Lyman is a great rifle. Hey... buy them both. You might as well because it sounds like your hooked in this sport. Good luck with what ever you pick.
 

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I have two .54 GPRs, one flint and one cap, and a .54 T/C Hawkens cap. I would pick the GPR anyday. Lyman uses a 15/16" barrel compare to the T/C 1" barrel. After toting both of them around the T/C begins to feel like a 2X4 with a steel pipe straped on. With that 1" barrel, the T/C just feels chunky and heavy. The GPR has a longer, slimmer barrel, which gives it better balance and feels lighter. The GPR has a oil rubbed stock, not that plastic coated stuff like the T/C. As for accuracy, I once squeezed out a 3/4" five shot group at 100 yards off a bench. I was using .530 ball, pillow ticking patch lubed with Ballistol oil and 90 grains of FFg Goex. That is not an everyday group, but the GPR will do it. With the right lube you don't have to swab between shots. I can shoot all day without swabbing . A .54 caliber lead ball will take any game around. I keep my T/C, becuse it shoots conicals very well. It is a tack driver with 380 grain Lee REAL bullets and 400 grain T/C Maxi Balls. Unfortunately, the T/C has a tight bore and I have to pound round balls down the bore, giving me poor accuracy. I would say go with the .54 GPR. Check them out at DNR Sports: http://www.dnrsports.com/acatalog/D___R_Catalog_Lyman_Muzzleloaders_649.html . Besides, you always need a new rifle :)
 

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VP......What lube are you using and what powder? It sounds like you are getting a lot of fouling there in just six shots. As soon as my Falkenberry Juice runs out, I will have to switch to a different lube. I have used Old Zip from Dixie, Mink oil and Wonder Lube all with good or better results. If you are range shooting. Take some Ballistrol with you and run a soaked patch followed by a dry patch down the barrel once and a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
VP......What lube are you using and what powder? It sounds like you are getting a lot of fouling there in just six shots. As soon as my Falkenberry Juice runs out, I will have to switch to a different lube. I have used Old Zip from Dixie, Mink oil and Wonder Lube all with good or better results. If you are range shooting. Take some Ballistrol with you and run a soaked patch followed by a dry patch down the barrel once and a while.
I was using Three Rivers Black Powder Solvent. The store (The Gun Works www.thegunworks.com) I traded for the Thompson told me to use this in between shots, and to clean the barrel with when I am done shooting.

I did use this to clean my barrel, but I followed up with hot water and soap. I am still new to all of this so I am trying to find out what really works. I want to try Ballistol, Wonder Lube 1000, and Mink Oil Tallow.
Does it matter what type of soap you use to clean with the hot water, and how hot should the water be?
Thanks again!!!!
 

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I use Dawn Dish Soap to add to the water to clean my rifles. Some use Murphy's Oil Soap.

You want to make a great patch lube for roundball shooting and you can use it to clean your rifle also some tell me, although I do not...

Moose Milk

A general purpose black powder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 4 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz.

I dip my patching in this twice and let it dry between. Makes a semi-dry patch material that's easy to carry & use. If you don't mind carrying a little bottle it's a GREAT liquid lube as is.

Be sure when making the Moose milk to mix the alcohol and castor oil together first. Then add the witch hazel. Add all of this to the water and shake. Finally after that mixture is all together add the Murphy’s oil soap
.


I go to Wal Mart. I buy 100% cotton pillow ticking Red or Blue stripe cloth. A yard lasts a long time. Wash this fabric in the washing machine to remove the "sizing" out of the material. Then line dry it. You can tear this by had into strips real easy and straight.

You can use Moose Milk a couple ways to lube the material. You can dip the length of cloth and ring it back out. They lay it on some old window screen to dry. The oils will stay in the cloth. Do this twice. Then you can use it dry but treated.

Another way it is get a spritz bottle and spritz the cloth until it is damp and use it that way. Or you can use the two ways as a combination.



Here is a strip of cloth I tore off. I have spritz'd the cloth and you can see the oil in it.



Lay the treated cloth over the muzzle and cent a ball in the barrel.



With your short starter, drive the ball into the barrel under the muzzle.



Now grip the fabric with your fingers and cut it off, level to the muzzle. You now have a lubed perfect centers patch and ball. With the long end of your short starter, seat the ball and patch into the barrel and finish it off with your ramrod.

This is the lube I use all the time. It is easy to use and the accuracy with it is very good. Plus is all natural.



That was out of my T/C .50 caliber Flintlock and I was happy for that being off a clean barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I use Dawn Dish Soap to add to the water to clean my rifles. Some use Murphy's Oil Soap.

You want to make a great patch lube for roundball shooting and you can use it to clean your rifle also some tell me, although I do not...

Moose Milk

A general purpose black powder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 4 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz.

I dip my patching in this twice and let it dry between. Makes a semi-dry patch material that's easy to carry & use. If you don't mind carrying a little bottle it's a GREAT liquid lube as is.

Be sure when making the Moose milk to mix the alcohol and castor oil together first. Then add the witch hazel. Add all of this to the water and shake. Finally after that mixture is all together add the Murphy’s oil soap
.


I go to Wal Mart. I buy 100% cotton pillow ticking Red or Blue stripe cloth. A yard lasts a long time. Wash this fabric in the washing machine to remove the "sizing" out of the material. Then line dry it. You can tear this by had into strips real easy and straight.

You can use Moose Milk a couple ways to lube the material. You can dip the length of cloth and ring it back out. They lay it on some old window screen to dry. The oils will stay in the cloth. Do this twice. Then you can use it dry but treated.

Another way it is get a spritz bottle and spritz the cloth until it is damp and use it that way. Or you can use the two ways as a combination.



Here is a strip of cloth I tore off. I have spritz'd the cloth and you can see the oil in it.



Lay the treated cloth over the muzzle and cent a ball in the barrel.



With your short starter, drive the ball into the barrel under the muzzle.



Now grip the fabric with your fingers and cut it off, level to the muzzle. You now have a lubed perfect centers patch and ball. With the long end of your short starter, seat the ball and patch into the barrel and finish it off with your ramrod.

This is the lube I use all the time. It is easy to use and the accuracy with it is very good. Plus is all natural.



That was out of my T/C .50 caliber Flintlock and I was happy for that being off a clean barrel.
cayugad,

THANK YOU AGAIN...The pictures are VERY helpful. You should put together a tutorial with your pictures.
 

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I was using Three Rivers Black Powder Solvent. The store (The Gun Works www.thegunworks.com) I traded for the Thompson told me to use this in between shots, and to clean the barrel with when I am done shooting.

I did use this to clean my barrel, but I followed up with hot water and soap. I am still new to all of this so I am trying to find out what really works. I want to try Ballistol, Wonder Lube 1000, and Mink Oil Tallow.
Does it matter what type of soap you use to clean with the hot water, and how hot should the water be?
Thanks again!!!!
Soap is soap. What ever you have around the house will be just fine. No matter what anyone else says, (tepid) hot water really loosens up the fouling for a more complete cleaning job. Do not worry about what some people call flash rust. Just run a coulple of patches down the barrel lubed with a good quality grease made for muzzleloaders. That means do not use petrolium based oils. Petrolium oils may protect the barrel, but cause unneeded preperation to get the rifle ready to shoot the next time. Something like Wonder Lube 1000 will protect your barrel just fine. A lot of the old timers used mutton tallow mixed with beeswax (Old Zip). Beeswax is very good for preserving metal. When I build a rifle, the last step is to heat the barrel and coat the outside with beeswax and then buff it out real good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Soap is soap. What ever you have around the house will be just fine. No matter what anyone else says, (tepid) hot water really loosens up the fouling for a more complete cleaning job. Do not worry about what some people call flash rust. Just run a coulple of patches down the barrel lubed with a good quality grease made for muzzleloaders. That means do not use petrolium based oils. Petrolium oils may protect the barrel, but cause unneeded preperation to get the rifle ready to shoot the next time. Something like Wonder Lube 1000 will protect your barrel just fine. A lot of the old timers used mutton tallow mixed with beeswax (Old Zip). Beeswax is very good for preserving metal. When I build a rifle, the last step is to heat the barrel and coat the outside with beeswax and then buff it out real good.
flintlock,

I used Wonder Lube 1000 after I cleaned my rifle. Sportsman warehouse had pre-lubed patches on closeout so I bought them all.
Do you recommend running a dry patch down the barrel before I go out to shoot, and do you think a patch with Wonder Lube ran down the bore in between shots would be o.k.?
 

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flintlock,

I used Wonder Lube 1000 after I cleaned my rifle. Sportsman warehouse had pre-lubed patches on closeout so I bought them all.
Do you recommend running a dry patch down the barrel before I go out to shoot, and do you think a patch with Wonder Lube ran down the bore in between shots would be o.k.?
I always use two dry patches down the barrel and snap a couple of caps to get at any lube that may be at the bottom of the barrel.

Wonder Lube works well enough on my rifle to go five shots between swabbing the bore out. If your ball/patch combination is very tight on a clean barrel, you may try a thinner patch or even consider a smaller ball.

Too bad Falkenberry Juice is no longer available, that stuff was slicker than owl snot and I could fire all day long without swabing. I still have three bottles.
 

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Here's the site for Ballistol oil: http://www.ballistol.com/ . Order the Sportsman's Oil. Use four parts water to one part oil. A little bit goes a long ways. I can shoot all day without swabbing. I can have a load in all day without any ill effects to the powder. Wonderful stuff.
 
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