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Discussion Starter #1
Gentlemen...

While perusing an older Speer manual I ran across both load data for, and a photo of, the .357 mag (rifle load) with a 180g .358 speer spitzer.  I realize that this bullet is probably designed to perform at higher velocities than achievable in the handgun cartridge; that performance on game would be better with a wide meplat bullet.  It does seem that the trajectory would be flattened, if only a little.  I suppose my interest is more academic than practical.

Has anyone played with this combination before, and what were your observations?

At the very least, I would be able to distinguish my rifle loads from my revolver loads more readily.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to reply.

Cordially,
Smith
 

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Though I have no experience using the 180 FN "Spitzer" in the 357 mag, (I have in the 35 Rem) I'd say the reason for it was an attempt to hang as much bullet outside the case to increase powder space and also to take advantage of the more ballistically efficient shape.

As far as bullet expansion, I believe this bullet will expand down to about 1800 FPS so it concievably could be a short range thumper in the 357 Rifle.

However, I would tend to think the primary use for this bullet loaded in this round would be for use in the falling steel game.

Regards, Ray
 

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Off topic maybe, but many years ago in Guns & Ammo a Ruger Blachawk in 9mm had some loads worked up with the 150gr Rem Spitzers. Plenty of room in the cylinder for this configuration.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Interesting...

I wasn't aware of a 150 grainer in that caliber.  That would make more sense, from a velocity/expansion point of view.  2000 fps is a realistic expectation in that weight category.  I'm currently getting that with 140s.  I'll have to look around.

Cordially,

Smith
 

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Smith,

#3 is right with regard to the 150 gr. Spitzer. I have a few hundred of them left myself after purchasing them a  number of years ago. Unfortunately, they are no longer available as a component bullet from Remington last I checked. You may still find some though at Gunshows or on the dealers shelves.

They were used in 35 Rem factory ammo also but I believe it was intended for the XP-100 single-shot pistol. I have not done any real expansion testing on it but it appears a little too heavily constructed for the lower velocities of a 357 mag. I have also heard it was used in the 350 Remington Mag rifle cartridge which if so would indicate it had to be more heavily constructed to take the higher impact velocities of this round.

The bearing surface on this bullet is quite short also due to the weight/diameter ratio.

e-mail me if you like and I can send you some to play with.



Regards, Ray
 

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Hi, Smith:
  I did some wetpack testing with the Speer 180gr. FN a while back. Expansion was iffy at 200 yards when fired from a .35 Remington at 2200 fps. Wetpack isn't meat, but it's close enough. Velocity at 200 yards is 1600 fps, given Speer's claimed B.C. of .245.  I'd say it needs 1650-1700 fps minimum speed for expansion. The wetpack showed it's a slow expander compared to the Remington 200 gr. RN Core-Lokt and it doesn't smack medium sized varmints like foxes and raccoons like the Core-Lokt does either. It does shoot flatter than the Core-Lokt. I don't claim this is my final word on this bullet, since I've only used a 1/2 box I picked up cheap at a gun show.

  The cannelure is 0.2" further back than the cannelure on a BTB 185 gr. FN, which is the longest nosed bullet I can use in my S&W. If you can't set it out further than the standard .357 overall length of 1.590", you'll have a lot of ogive inside the case.

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Great replies...

Being a single-shot rifle, seating depth, and thus OAL, will only be (physically) governed by the throat dimensions, which I have not yet measured.  I assume, based on the published photo, that the available load/pressure data was developed in a load in which the bullet was crimped in the cannelure.  If the throat dimensions prevented me from seating it as prescribed, I would probably abandon the idea.  (Then I would have a WHOLE BOX of unreturnable .35 caliber rifle bullets...which would go to waste unless I purchased... you guessed it... another .35 caliber RIFLE!  My wife would surely understand...She hates to see perfectly good things go to waste.  Yeah.  Uh huh.  Right.)


Thanks again for the input!

Smith
 

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Hi, Smith:
  The Speer measures .356" just ahead of the cannelure, tapering to .350" 1/8" ahead of the cannelure. The BTB 185 gr. FN is .358" 3/16" ahead of the cannelure and most SWCs are .358" for at least a 1/16". So you should be able to crimp them in the cannelure.

  My curiosity got the better of me again. I seated one to the cannelure and chambered it in the S&W. It dropped in real easy, but there's 3/16" of bullet nose sticking out of the front of the cylinder. :biggrin:  You will have no problem telling them from your revolver loads. (It looks like something J.D. Jones dreamed up. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> )

  A new box measures .3585" behind the cannelure, so they'll be a tight fit in your barrel, but you'll have lots of powder space.

  Sucess! The bullet came out of the case with a couple of light raps of the impact puller, but the case needs a trip through the resizer. I used lots of case lube on the bullet and inside case neck before I put this concoction together. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Bye
Jack  
 
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