[eligma]

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, but this is my first post on the forum.

I'm looking for a rifle that will be the first I've personally owned and have a few things I want in a rifle that are making it fairly difficult to find many options.

1. Bolt action
2. Accepts either AR or AK mags (prefer the 7.62x39 over the .223)
3. Iron sight capability (I really like the ghost ring with the front blade protected by wings on either side)
4. Trying to keep the rifle itself under $800, $700 or less preferable, max around $1,000

I'm aware of the Ruger Gunsite Scout, Savage 110 Scout, and the Mossberg MVP Scout as well. Just wondering if there are many options out there or if I've found what I'm looking for and just need to decide on one. I'm open to anything that fits these requirements, don't have any loyalty to a particular brand or anything like that. I've been looking for a while, so any help would be awesome.

 

[Darkker]

Of the three mentioned, the only one I know for sure takes AR mags is the MVP. Don't believe the other two take either of those mag types.

A bolt action that accepts those mags, and uses iron sights isn't common.
So I think your choice is Mossberg or build.

Welcome to the board.

 

[Trent12]

CZ makes a bolt action Carbine that shoots 7.62x39... but it doesn’t use AK or AR15 mags.

If you want something to use NATO mags or comblock surplus mags you’re most likely going to have to buy a semi auto.

The mossberg MVP does use AR15 mags but it’s the only one I know of. You MAY be able to find some sort of modified mag adapter to fit a STANAG mag into a popular/common action such as a Remington 700 or a savage. Maybe check Magpul?

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...t_action_carbine_wblued_barrel_&_walnut_stock

There is a link to a CZ rifle.

 

[Ireload2]

With a first experience at anything you are lacking both knowledge and experience.
Your first set of requirements are not likely to be very accurate compared to your requirements in 5 to 10 years.

 

[Sus Scrofa]

With a first experience at anything you are lacking both knowledge and experience.
Your first set of requirements are not likely to be very accurate compared to your requirements in 5 to 10 years.

Agree with the above. My question has to be "Why?"

 

[StretchNM]

Welcome from New Mexico, Eligma!

What is the purpose of your new rifle? Hunting? Target shooting? Protection of self and country? Of course they could all be your reasons, but.... what's on your mind as you mentally "build" and set criteria for this first rifle?

 

[eligma]

Thank you for the warm welcome, as well as the advice.

All of the above, as far as purpose goes. I'm well aware that my requirements may change over time, but currently, that's where they sit (or at least close to it). The way I look at it, a rifle like this is basically ban-proof (barring a full-on ban of all guns) while still being highly usable. I doubt AR's are in any real danger, but you never really know, and I'd hate to buy one only for it to become illegal soon after and have spent all my money on a rifle I can't shoot. Reliability is a huge thing for me, as is cost/availability of ammo.

I've shot a fair amount, just never had one of my own. The reviews of all the scout rifles I've found seem pretty favorable and as far as bolt vs. semi goes, if I get into a situation where I need a semi-auto rifle badly enough to make a difference, I'm probably dead anyway seeing as I lack the tactical training necessary to stand a real chance against multiple attackers. My next firearms purchase would be a semi-auto pistol, likely a Glock 19, though I know I had looked at a few others recently. That would be the go-to self defense gun with an AR likely down the road.

The biggest competitor in my mind besides an AR or AK pattern is a simple 12 gauge pump. Reliable, cheap to practice with, and a serious capability for defense. I love the mossberg 500, so either that or the Remington 870 would be the likely choice as far as that goes. I live in an urban/suburban sort of transition, so I highly doubt I'd ever have to reach out to 300+ yards.

If more reasoning is needed, I'm more than willing to give it, as well as listen to advice. I know some aren't a fan of the scout rifle concept, but I think it may be just the thing for me.

 

[eligma]

I'm also not 100% opposed to getting something in .308 for the extra stopping power, but then the problem would become limited practice on the platform. I've considered getting a .308 and practicing with an airgun to save ammo and practice the fundamentals. Whatever I end up going with, snap caps and an airgun will likely feature heavily in my training.

 

[Trent12]

You can get decent brass case milspec .308 FMJ for $13 a box. It’s not horrible but is still fairly affordable. About double the cost of 5.56/.223. Occasionally you will stumble upon a really good sale and you can get it for $9-10 a box.

If you plan to hunt later on, a .308 win scout rifle is more than adequate. And the Ruger is controlled round feed and comes with some very nice iron sights too.

I’m personally planning on adding an M1A scout rifle myself. And maybe a Garand next... I’m a big semi auto guy.

 

[Ireload2]

You don't seem to have a real purpose for owning a rifle. Most of us want one to shoot bad enough that we are willing to risk buying the wrong thing now and then. If you are not going to reload you will probably never shoot it more than a few times before you put it away. Then you will sell it and someone will get a nearly new rifle at a bargain price.
It is hard for me to accept that you know much about shooting since you have never owned a single gun and you have commented repeatedly about the cost of the gun and cost of ammo. I will add that a pellet rifle is poor practice for a .308.
You are not marrying the rifle. Buying a good used rifle is much more economical. If you don't like it trade it off and buy another. As you build experience your requirements will change.

If you do not love shooting enough to buy a rifle just forget it. You need to be a shooter not just a gun owner.
Forget what will be outlawed and forget protecting yourself. You cannot become proficient enough to protect yourself shooting a pellet gun or even 2 boxes of ammo a month.

I think you are overating your previous experiences with borrowed guns.
Rifle beginners need to start with a .22lr so you can afford to shoot a lot and learn without recoil. Try a .22 bolt gun or a Ruger 10-22.
I started with a .22lr nearly 60 years ago. I got my first centerfire 55 years ago. I have been reloading 49 years. I have shot up tens of thousands of rimfire and centerfire rounds. I was a competitive skeet shooter 10 years so I am a competent shotgunner as well. Still in a surprise situation I would not stand a chance in an ambush. So learn to shoot because you love it enough to commit a little money. Don't buy a gun that you will never learn to shoot with the goal of protecting yourself. Buy something you are commited to shooting a lot.

 

[MZ5]

Welcome to the forum.

The only _potential_ addition to the MVP option that I can think of is one of the new Ruger American Rifles in 223 that use AR magazines. AFAIK it is not available with iron sights, though.

 

[eligma]

Thanks for the replies.

Ireload, I'm not sure why it's so frustrating to you that a new shooter doesn't want to leap blindly and sell the family farm to buy his first rifle and reloading equipment. You seem to have an impressive resume and it's a shame that you come across fairly aggressive, because some of your advice seems reasonable. Although, you gave no reason why a quality airgun would offer less practical benefit than a .22. I don't live in a place where you can just go into a field and shoot, not without a drive and lining up schedules with land-owning friends and family. How does an airgun not allow you to practice shooting fundamentals?

As for being hesitant, I'm a college student paying out of pocket for school. "If you do not love shooting enough to buy a rifle just forget it," is not helpful. I'm literally trying to decide which rifle to buy to get into shooting on my own. No, I'm not an expert. But I've shot enough to decide I like it and am trying to find a rifle that fits my needs/desires. I have ready access to a .22, so I don't see the need to have my own. A used rifle would be fine if I trusted random people to take care of tools the way I do. But I don't.

I've wanted a rifle for a while, have the money, and don't want an AR. What can I say? I like to be different sometimes. The 2nd Amendment is still a thing, so I'd like to exercise that right. Seems to me that's the only reason someone needs.

 

[60DRB]

Welcome to the forum,
The greatest difficulty your choice/desire of rifle faces is the magazine system you want. Have you fired any (larger/longer than 20 round) magazine fed rifles from a bench before? I find the magazine (longer than 20 round) hanging down tends to interfere with my normal shooting position.
Otherwise, I think your choice for a bolt action with iron sights is appropriate for developing good shooting foundation skills. I prefer the more traditional style/look bolt action, but I'm not you.
You say;
"I'm also not 100% opposed to getting something in .308 for the extra stopping power, but then the problem would become limited practice on the platform."
From your description of where you live, that's going to be an issue for any rifle shooting practice. .223 might be a cheaper ammunition/caliber choice for practice. It also has a lesser recoil, which can be a factor for longer practice periods since you state you have to coordinate for dedicated "range time".

 

[kdanie]

Do you want iron sights AND a scope or just iron sight? Are you REALLY stuck on AR/AK magazines and if so why??

Ken

 

[eligma]

60, my hesitation with .308 is purely cost. That's a good point though in regards to magazine length. I guess as long as the mags can hold 10+ it would suffice for me. I'll just have to acquire mags a bit more slowly since they probably wouldn't be as cheap as the aforementioned ones.

I also value the idea of a bolt gun for the limitations in terms of practice. It's way too much fun to blow through a 30 rd mag and get nothing out of it. Slow, deliberate practice is what I need.

Ken, iron sights are a must, and I haven't found many bolt actions that you can't mount a scope to. The AR/AK mags thing is a cost/availability thing. Cheaper mags are a bonus, but not a dealbreaker without them. The iron sights are definitely a dealbreaker as I don't want to pay a gunsmith to do the drilling.

 

[Darkker]

Due to your follow-ups, I'll offer a little more that hopefully will help narrow things down for you.

Consider what do you really want, that you can afford in your current situation.

If this is purely for "defense", then a rifle is rather impractical IMO, and the collateral damage potential is enormous(particularly in an urban setting).
If this is for general enjoyment, learning, plinking, etc. Then honestly with a centerfire rifle, you need to REALLY narrow down what it is you want most.

As an example, eons back when I was in school I bought a 308. Was enough to hunt anything that could keep me fed, and surplus ammo was relatively cheap and I could "learn" to be a good shot; so I thought.
The devil is always in the details, and there are always exceptions and such.
Shortly after buying that rifle I became proficient enough as far as trigger control and breathing/heart rate . The trouble was distance, optics, and that "good" cheap ammo. Essentially all ball ammo, and particularly surplus, is reliably able to go *BANG*, and not much else. When I *thought* 1.5" high at 100 took me to X at 200; or verifying 200 yards wasn't reliable for me in that place; I began chasing my tail, and frustration really hurt learning and honing of skills. I discovered that Cheap ammo and good ammo are mutually exclusive. That SFP scopes aren't capable of allowing me to accurately do what I was after.

So, what do you want? Do you really want something that has a 20+ round mag to shoot ball ammo, or $10/500 of brown bear/wolf? If you do that is fine, but what you can learn from that equipment will be rather limited. Do you want to learn marksmanship and distance? Do you want to be prepared for all of the Yeti that are rampaging accross the US?

As far as the air rifle, or 22's. I have no issue with using them as a fundamental learning tool for trigger control, etc; But they don't recoil. If your dream rifle is a light 308, you need to shoot that also. If not you can gain a serious flinch, or dislike for the recoil. Lots of people in that camp who shoot a couple shots of their Ultra mag, and stop because of the dislike/inability to handle the recoil.

Just some food for thought.

 

[eligma]

You make a good point. I'll definitely be renting something light in .308 BEFORE purchase if I end up going that route. But that seems unlikely. I'll do some more thinking on this.

 

[StretchNM]

You're catching some heat, eligma, but you're sure handling it well. Go with your heart and desire, and weigh in all the good advice here, and you'll end up a shooter who loves the sport and his guns.

 

[JBelk]

The removable box magazine is deal killer. Otherwise that is a CZ-527.

Why introduce the terrible noise of a box magazine to hunting rifle would be the question.

 

[langenc]

What about a bolt 223?? Ruger makes a nice on except for trigger.

That way you get bolt accuracy and cheaper ammo==$6/20 or so.