[ENGLANDER]

Hello from Scotland

I have a pile of 200 grain tmj bullets (we must use fmj on the range when target shooting) which i want to put though my .444p (when it arrives) DO NOT WORRY i will only use single shot (NO tmj in magazine).
Has any one used 200 grain in .444 and can you suggest any load data , not for hunting, just for fun on the range but would like a bit of "poke" behind them !
I hope some one can HELP?

Best regards from across the pond

ENGLANDER.

 

[MikeG]

200 gr. load data is probably not going to be common, but here's a quick way to get started:

Since the bullet is lighter and takes up less space in the case than a 240 gr. bullet, use the 240 gr. data and go from there.  I'd start at the MAX 240 gr. data and adjust as necessary.

Make sense?

Oh and on your mould question, the bullet mould will generally drop a bullet a few thousandths larger than the desired diameter.  Then the bullets are sized back down.

So if you get a bullet mould that's advertised as .430", chances are good that it will really drop .431" or .432".  Different alloys will make slight changes also.

Might also talk to the mould makers, if you can, and ask what the unsized diameter will typically be with your alloy.  They should have a pretty good idea.

Good luck with your shooting and hunting.

 

[William Iorg]

Hello Scotland

I have used the commercial cast 240 gr. BBSWC's in my .444 Winchester Timber Carbine.

16.2 gr. of Alliant Unique gave 1,495 fps. these were sized .429" and I loaded them 2.565" OAL. they shat well and did not lead. This was surprising as they were lubed with a rather hard, grey wax.

I have shot quite a few of Lyman 429421, 429244 and the 429640 HP. All three shoot very well in the Winchester with the HP showing remarkable accuracy at 50 yards.

It probably won't help but the Hornady 210 gr XTP went 2,436 fps ahead of 40.0 gr of IMR 4198. a good load with low recoil.

The unique load is quiet which is very popular with your shooting friends at the next bench!

 

[BD]

I'm new here, but noticing this topic I thought I'd ask something which has been nagging at me. I'm in the market for a .444 and at the only gun show I've attended I looked closely at several Winchesters. It seems there's two models, one with a 1:20 twist and one with about a 1:12 twist. The difference in the nomenclature of the two models slips my mind right now but my question is; does the model with the tight 1:12 twist come with an appropriately longer throat to accomodate the heavier bullets?

 

[William Iorg]

Thank you!

I measured my twist twice! I thought I was nuts!

I took a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber on my Timber Carbine.
The cast is exactly like the SAMMI spec drawing in the NRA reloading book, as close as I can measure anyway.

You must seat the bullets pretty deep. I took a cast of a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 also, did not have a Marlin .444 available, IT also matched the SAMMI drawing very well.

I should have mentioned that there is almost no throat.

 

[MikeG]

BD, with the short throats and cast bullets, Marshall recommends seating his bullets to where they are just short of the rifling, and then crimping with a Lee Factory Crimp die.

Most good cast designs for .44 handguns have the crimp groove in the wrong place for a .444 rifle.

See his articles on the 444 in the Tech Notes, if you haven't already.  Load the tech notes page and scroll to the bottom to find the links.

 

[BD]

Mike, I'd talked to a couple of guys over at Shooters.com who've been messing with the .444 for years. The common complaints were always microgroove rifling, slow twist and short throat. So when I looked down the barrel of the Winchester at the gun show and saw that mighty fast twist I got excited thinking somebody at winchester had really wised up re: cast bullets.  I suppose a person could throat a lever gun just like anything else, but never having owned one I have no idea how complicated it is to even remove the barrel. Seems like this is something Winchester could address at the factory. BD

 

[William Iorg]

I'm about to show my limited knowladge...

The Winchester, at least my Timber Carbine, will not allow big meplat bullets to make the turn into the magazine when seated out.

What I mean here is that when loaded single shot, you can load the overall cartridge quite long. It may require some force on the lever to close the action because you are shoving the nose up into the rifling.

The .45-70 Marlin and perhaps the .444 Marlin (I am not sure of the .444) have a bulge in the reciever which allows wider meplats to make the turn. This has caused some controversial disccusions on another board.

Anyway, my Winchester will accept much longer cartridges as a single shot than will work through the magazine. You can check this by opening the action but leaving the carrier down. Drop a cartridge in the open action and close the lever. This will shove the cartridge into the magazine. Work the lever normaly and the round will feed. I have done this with some 260 gr. LBT style bullets from a differnt commercial caster.

I dont think throating the Winchester will get you anywhere due to the magazine limits.