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Discussion Starter #1
Good evening to all,
How would you like to try something different this summer?  How about taking your favorite big bore handgun or rifle and seeing what you can do at 200 yards with it?  After that I'm hoping Marshall will let us collectively post an article of our findings in Tech Notes.  That would be with each contributor explaining how they got their big bore to behave at 200 yards.  

I don't think it matters about barrel lengths or type of sights.  It's about sharing what we've learned of bullets, powders, sights, etc...  as we make bullets group @ 200 yards.  Personally, I have not fired a rifle or handgun at a 200 yard target in almost 15 years.  It might be a lot of fun and educational.

If you like the idea, please respond here but also e-mail me @  [email protected] so we can figure out who wants to do what and to set up an info sharing network.  Please let me know if you'd like to try your hand @ 200 yards over the summer and giving a short write up for the article.  Thanks

God bless.....................  Bill M
 

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Bill,

Sounds like an interesting project. I shot my old .45-70 Marlin to 400 meters a couple times, and I can attest to the fact that's waaaaay out there for an iron-sighted big bore. But with a bit of practice one can get surprisingly good results. Maybe my Service Rifle experience helped some. In any event, sign me up. I'll use my 444P. And while not a big bore, would it be inappropriate to break out my Model 27 with heavyweight bullets? Might make an interesting contrast to the .44 Magnums and .454's.

You have my e-mail, so keep me posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Bill,
Sounds like this is just up your alley.  I was purposely vague on what is a big bore since this is mostly about learing while we have fun.  .358 is big enough and with heavy bullets may give you outstanding results.  Thanks.

God bless.............  Bill M
 

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Sounds like fun. Looks like the .375 will be big bore for this, so I'm game. Are jacketed bullets OK, just in case I can't get the hardcast to shoot from the short necked .375 wildcat?

Now if I only had that .375 Improved Whelen I "need" so badly....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Brian,
Sure, use the bullets you want.  Actually I am hoping that enough folks will participate that we will get a taste for many types of bullets, loads and firearms.  About the only thing I was not thinking of was taking the trusty 30-06 (or clone) with a 150gr jacketed spitzer bullet and benching it in @ 200 yards.  That's just too easy.  Outside of that, I think it's whatever you want to launch, in the relm of big bore,  to 200 yards and see what's possible.  Then record the failure or success.  I do not view it as a contest but as a fun learning tool that we can share with others.  

Personally, I'm going to see what my 44 mag handguns will do.  I'm very curious if what is stable @ 100 yards is still stable @ 200 yards.  Somewhere I'll probably get my Outfitter to reach out there with ghost rings for sights.  Have fun.

God bless...............  Bill M
 

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Count me in too if you don`t mind. I have 44 mag handguns and rifles, and a 444 Outfitter.I`ve been wanting to try something like that anyway.Sounds like a lot of fun to me. Keep me posted on this if you don`t mind.  Don
 

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Bill,

I'll jump on board as well.   We have a spring bear season that opens 15 April... will be getting ready for some longer than normal range .444 Outfitter work.

We'll give reports on .44-265 WFNGC,.44-280g WFNGC, .44-290g LFNGC and .44-330g LFNGC at the longer-than-normal ranges with the .444 Outfitter!

Looking for 225-300g testing... should be interesting!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Hey, you people really want to know how your gun and loads perform enter some silhouette matches, if you dare! I suspect many of you will be humbled by the results.      You will learn more about your guns+ammo in one season shooting steel than the rest of your life hunting! You can even post your scores here if your not too embarrased. Cant be much of a challenge resting a gun on bags and shooting at a target 200yds out. Its also easy to not call your fliers,so i know i wouldn't believe anybody.
 

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<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I was planning on doing something like this this spring and summer anyway so I'm in.  Not necessarily for any contest though...I don't have that kind of confidence and we don't have that kind of accountability over the 'net.  But I just bought the 1895 G 45/70, only 20 rounds so far.  Tried one round at 330 yards, it was 5-6 feet below our old clanger!  It was hitting 1 inch high at 100 yards.  

Anyway, I need to learn to shoot this thing.  It is my foggy day or brush day gun, normally I carry my .300WM for elk and the old .06 for deer.  

445 Supermag:  I usually shoot over the bench for sighting in but like to fire offhand for hunting practice.   I used to turn loose some balloons in the breeze and try to get them.  But that becomes a lot of mess to clean up.  :)
 

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This sounds like if could get fun...... I got just the target for this one.

I created a Buffalo Target that would make a nice 200 yarder with a 12" center bull.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thank you all for your responses.  Naturally, anybody else is welcome to join in.  This is meant to be a low pressure time of fun and learning.  

THE RULES...

I can't think of any rules except to leave the 30-06 with the 3x9 scopes, shooting off the bench, at home.  It's a big bore shoot (loosley defined).  Any sights are ok.  If you prefer the bench, sitting, prone, standing etc., it's up to you.  Any bullets and loads that are safe are ok.  The one thing we can't live without is good record keeping so you can report on what worked and what did not work.  Things like, fire lapping, case prep, powder, primer, bullet etc.  Facts we can share with others as to what worked.  You can report group sizes at 200 yards and under (or over if you're that good), and how you did it.  Naturally, sights and firearm modifications.

There is no contest here!  Just trying our hands @ 200 yards with big bores.  Personally, I'm going to take a couple of my 44 mag handguns, lean back against a tree, draw my knees up and lob them in.  Once that is settled with a few loads, I'm going to do the same thing offhand.  With my 444, I'll bench it to test the rifle/loads and then go to sitting to test me.  

It's pretty much whatever you guys want to do.  Just be safe.  Let's make the cuttoff date for this project 8/15 so those with early hunting seasons can take advantage of our learning.  Feel free to e-mail me with any questions or needs at   [email protected]

Good shooting & God bless............  Bill M    
 

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Hi guys,

As 445 Supermag pointed out, the International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association(IHMSA) is a good avenue for wringing out the accuracy of your hadngun/load combination and ability to hit the tragets you are aiming for.  However, we are not so critical of ourselves, much less others who are interested in learning about the sport.  I am a match director and am willing to assist anyone who is interested in finding a club close to them to try this out.  

IHMSA now has categories open for those who wish to shoot open sighted or scoped handguns in a variety of positions.  BTW, Creedmore (lying down) is only easy if you are watching.  Stepping up to the line makes things much more challenging.  We shoot on the fourth sunday of every month from March to September here in Jackson, MS.  If you are close by and wish to join us, we'd like to have you visit. Anyone interested can reach me at [email protected]
 

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Bill,

Count me in.  However, I hope you don't mean to do this this Saturday morning.  I don't know if I'm ready for it just yet.

This sounds like it should be fun.

See ya,

Nazman44 (aka. Don N.)
 

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Just back from the range.  

*Fed 210 LR primers in all loads.
*RL7 powder.  
*405 grain Meister FN bullets  Flat base RN  .458"
*Remington cases once fired the factory bullet out of them.  
All rounds fired off bench rest at 100 yards except as noted below.  

[email protected]        avg  3"
[email protected]                      4"
[email protected]                      2"
[email protected]                      2 1/2"
[email protected]                      5"           (count one flyer)
[email protected]                      4 1/2"     (count one flyer)

I took two potshots at a 13" auto rim @ 200 yards.  First one hit about 6" low.  Second was 2-3" high, judging from the cloud of sand and dust coming up.  Didn't ring the rim, darn it!   <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

This was through the 1895G with a Williams peep sight.  

I can't wait to get the BTB GC at .460 which Marshall advised me should produce some better accuracy.  I didn't see any leading.  

Barrel has not been lapped, it is new.  

I fired several factory rounds (Remington 405 Soft points).  They were slightly more accurate than the others.  Fired offhand at 50 yards, one in bull and one 2" above bull.  

This little gun is so much fun to shoot!  I shot 30-35 rounds with only a t-shirt on and hardly noticeable in my shoulder.  I can't fire more than about 5 out of my .300 Win Mag with just a t-shirt.  Did 8 once and never again.  Felt like a sledge hammer.  The 1895G hardly wiggles.  Just a quick thump.  Like it wants to kick but is too lazy.  I reckon 51 grains of RL7 and Marshall's 405 LFNGC will get my attention!?  I'll let you know, they are on order.  


Anyway, I'll try some more at 200 yards later on.  That's a long ways for a peep sight and a blind old guy like me.  <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->:)


(Edited by hotrod53 at 10:48 pm on April 26, 2001)


(Edited by hotrod53 at 11<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->4 pm on April 26, 2001)
 

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Well I've loaded up a second batch of trial rounds.  And my Lee Factory Crimp Die came to day, so I went back and crimped them with it.  I'll see what happens.  Once I get a decent load, 200 yards here I come.  
 

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Between the arthritis and movin' sixty miles further out, I don't shoot silhouette any more. But in the glory days of IHMSA, (that's BEFORE Elgin Gates decided he was King of the World and World's Greatest Handgun/Rifle/Wildcatting/Anythingelse) I did quite a bit of plinking at the iron animals. My SBH .44 was usually loaded with a relatively mild load made up of Winchester cases and primers, Sierra or Hornady 240-gr. hollowpoint, and 23 gr. of IMR 4227. Velocity was around 1300 fps.
This gun and load was good for around 5moa right out to 200 meters on one of my good days, enough for possibles if I did my part. I never shot a possible 40, but I did get 32 of the beasties once, freestyle (prone rollover, gun supported by the hands only) and won a few matches here an there against other out-of-the-box guns. My best standing score in competition was 21. Remember you have to hit them AND knock them down, so this is a good test of gun, load and shooter.
I found that zero-plus-eight inches, to center on the 200-meter target with a belly hold, was 11 clicks up on the rear sight from my zero-plus-4 inch sight setting used on the chickens (you add the plus to your zero so that holding a sight picture on the body-leg juncture will give a center body hit.)
This was loads of fun, before the game became a win-at-any-cost, and the high roller blueprinters and rule-skirters took over.
If you really want to know how your big-bore handgun shoots, long range is the way to find out. Remember Elmer's 700-yard outhouse?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good afternoon to all,

This is just a reminder to all who wish to participate in this little informal 200 yard big bore shoot (as reprised in my note a few posts above this one).  I had set a target date of completion for 8/15.  Sometimes I am so naive.  Here we are, 2 weeks or so from getting this thing done and I have not even started yet.  Well... I did just get done loading some ammo to shoot @ 200 yards and plan to start tomorrow after church.  

For those of you who would like to participate and tell us what happened (I will compile your results into a tech note) it would be appropriate to move the completion date back.  Let's go for Sept 15th.  Hopefully, I will be done by then.

As before, please remember this is NOT a competition.  We are just sharing our victories and defeats to become better at this thing called shooting big bores.  Feel free to post your results here.  You can e-mail them directly to me for the tech notes by sending them to [email protected]

Good shooting and I hope you are better shots than me!

God bless............. Bill M
 

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On a funny note...

The other day I was testing some loads with the 1895G.  Finishing with "business" I took some potshots with Rem. factory loads at a waterfilled milk jug at 175 yards.  Couldn't nail the blame thing with the big bore (peep sights), so took to firing away with my old .22 rimfire  single shot, Remington Targetmaster.  You guessed it, shot that thing through, tipped it over and water running all over!  :shocked:

This has been fun.  Accuracy loads so far are:

RL7 49gr BTB 405gr .460"      1900fps
H335 56gr BTB 405gr .460"    1900fps

Bench tested at 100 yards.  

Enjoy!  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

(Edited by hotrod53 at 9:35 pm on July 28, 2001)
 
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