[winbag338]

Ive been thinking about what is truely needed to take on dangerous game. Thats not just hunting and killing but also stopping the furry fuzzy nasty . I was reading an artical on the subject, and in the story was a passage where Barnes produced a 220gr elephant/dangerous thing stopper in 30-06. 1st thing is this is not a legal round in most if not all of Africa even though this was how its being marketed. 2nd, if this is fairly universally concidered not a viable stopper, is this type of marketing ethical? 3rd, and if this is a viable dangerous game stopper, am i really one of the dreaded over compensating, over gunned stereo typed people i dismissed as myth, and if true would dread becomming?

 

[Bird Dog II]

Well I see your a .338 man. That's good. You realize that rounds like the .303, .30-06, and 7x57 have each killed a great many Many MANY more dangerous game animals than a .338 ever has or will. I mean its not even close. So no, I don't think you are over compensating. Personally I think the .338 is a poor substitute for the .375 in such situations. Still, history doesn't lie. Apparently all those shooters making all those thousands of kills with those lessor rounds weren't as smart as you and I. The animals were killed none the less.

 

[slim 60]

well a 22lr can drop a 1000lb bull if the shooter knows what he is doing..
didn t say it be my choice for the job .. but knowing what you doing is the key..jmo.

 

[Chief RID]

I have never been to Africa and probably never will. I am a big believer in the virtues of the 06. Now that being said, if I was to go to Africa after dangerous game, I would carry the fastest, heaviest, widest round I could for 2 or three fast shots in the kill zone at 30,20 and 10 ft. After that it won't matter what gun he eats.

 

[Pete D.]

Thats not just hunting and killing but also stopping the furry fuzzy nasty .

I remember talking to an older gent years ago about Afican experiences - not mine - and his comment about the .30-06 was "you can kill lions all day long with a .30-06. It will do that quite well. But when one of those big cats comes after you, you want a round that will stop him right there and then. The .30-06 ain't it". One can, I guess, argue the point but it made a great deal of sense then and still does, now that I've become the old gent.
About heavy bullets:
Barnes made - maybe still does - a 250 grain .30 caliber bullet that was a good choice for anyone wanting a heavy weight slug for heavy weight game. It can be loaded to about 2100 fps with current data and some 4831. At one point, there was load data that showed 2400fps +. That was a whomping load.....an attempt to match the British .318 Nitro Express, a succeessful African cartridge.
Pete

 

[Sinbad12-2007]

.30-06 220 grain

I own one of the series of books written back in the very early '70's by Jack O'Connor, ...THE HUNTING RIFLE. In it, on page 111, he states "For frontal shots on charging lions one may possibly need a strong 220-grain bullet ....... This was the medicine used by Stewart Edward White back in the 1920's. He put his trust in strong Western and Remington bullets of that weight for such work." White was a PH at that time and apparently quite a respected PH. I have read that in some countries in Africa a special permit can be issued for the use of the .30-06 in "special need" cases. I've also read of hunters using the '06, just recently, on Cape Buffalo and elephant. By "recently" I am inferring within the last 5 years that these permits were allowed.

I've never been to Africa but I can't believe I'd trust my fate to the .30-06 if I was ever given the chance to hunt there. I'm gutsy, just not stupid. I'd feel much safer using my .375 H&H.

Just an observation to help the thread along.

 

[TMan]

2nd, if this is fairly universally concidered not a viable stopper, is this type of marketing ethical?

Marketing and ethical, is nearly in the same class as lawyers and ethical, but better than politicians and ethical. It's not good.

When was the last time you took lawyers or politicians at their word

 

[Guidedfishing]

Could you use the 06 for dangerous game sure. Should you, no.

 

[Oneeye66]

The 30.06 will "kill" anything on the planet. STOPPING a charge from dangerous game is a whole 'nuther issue. There is a reason why most African countries mandate the .375 H&H as a "minimum" for hunting dangerous game. Since you ask about "stopping", my OPINION is that you should look bigger.

There are some very good articles on this very topic that you can do a search on. In fact, there is a long thread in the African Hunting section of this forum that discusses this quite well.

Dan

 

[jwp475]

I watched a video of control officers shooting Elephants using 30-06s with 220 grain solids and they were dropping Elephants with every shot even the one that were coming for them

Jack O'Conner's wife killed her Elephant with a 220 grain solid in the 30-06

The only sure way to stop a charge is with a CNS hit and the 30-06 will most certainly do that, in spades

 

[30-30remchester]

I have experemented with a few of the heavy bullets on elk using a 30-06. From my limited experence the Remington Cor-Lokt's are terrible penatrator. They are way to soft and expand way too fast to be good for much of anything over big deer. I have one bullet from my collection of recovered slugs, taken from a small mule deer. The 220 Remington only penatrated @11"of lung and light muscle. Beautiful mushroom, could have been used in a commercial. When bullets expand fast they get quite large in diameter and thus slow down and fail to penatrate well. A cow elk shot with the same bullet died fast but she was lung shot and the bullet didnt exit hitting no bones. I shot a small cow elk with the Barnes 250 grain bullets from a 30-06. I hit the spine and the bullet stopped inside the spine. Quite poor penatration. Again very large frontal area. I have shot alot of elk with lighter 200 grain Nosler Partitions and these were tremedous penatrators. So if the 200's preformed well I would assume the 220 grain Nosler Partitions would do quite well at getting in deep.

 

[magnumitis]

I watched a video of control officers shooting Elephants using 30-06s with 220 grain solids and they were dropping Elephants with every shot even the one that were coming for them

Jack O'Conner's wife killed her Elephant with a 220 grain solid in the 30-06

The only sure way to stop a charge is with a CNS hit and the 30-06 will most certainly do that, in spades

You (or anyone else) want to hunt elephants or any of the Big 5 with an '06 you knock yourself out.

Nice knowing ya.

 

[gunchamp]

totally agree

 

[winbag338]

The irony is when you go through the Barnes manual and look at all the calibers and the little animal icons given for each bullet weight, the first dangerous game icon starts with the 225gr 338 win mag.

 

[BarkBuster20]

I would use a .338 WM for the big 5, with some good 270 grain bullets.

 

[magnumitis]

I would use a .338 WM for the big 5, with some good 270 grain bullets.

Would you use it with nobody over your shoulder with a proper and fit tool to finish the job??

 

[jwp475]

Would you use it with nobody over your shoulder with a proper and fit tool to finish the job??

What makes you think that a 338 would not finnish the job?

 

[jwp475]

You (or anyone else) want to hunt elephants or any of the Big 5 with an '06 you knock yourself out.

Nice knowing ya.

The 30-06 as a "stopper rifle"???????? That has got to be, quite possibly, the dumbest idea/question I've seen on any internet forum this year.

You know this to be the dumbistthat you have seen on the internet, how?

The fact is a LLLOOOTT of Elephants have been killed by 30-08 class cartridges and the fact that the control officers were using the 30-06 in the video to great effect is proof that the cartridge will work and is not speculation

 

[30-30remchester]

An interesting thing to think about, the great elephant hunter Karamajo Bell was asked what he considered the ultimate elephant killer. His response was, a 30 caliber cartridge, shooting a 250 grain solid, traveling at 2500 fps. Sounds about like a hot loaded 30-06 with big barnes bullets. And to think this man may have some real insight into the subject of hunting big hairy stuff.

 

[magnumitis]

You know this to be the dumbistthat you have seen on the internet, how?

Because I generally remember what I've read and when something stands out as so severely lost in the ozone as the O.P. , I'm sure to remember it.

The fact is a LLLOOOTT of Elephants have been killed by 30-08 class cartridges and the fact that the control officers were using the 30-06 in the video to great effect is proof that the cartridge will work and is not speculation

It's just another variation of the age-old, and ever-dumb "can -vs- should" argument that seemingly pops up twice a week on all shooting forums.

You know............. since I've watched my grandad drop a LLLOOOTT of 2000 lb. beef cattle in their tracks with a .22 short, it's gotta be a good cape buffalo round, too........that sort of silliness.