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220 gr 30-06 big 5 stopper?

44K views 40 replies 22 participants last post by  m141a 
#1 ·
Ive been thinking about what is truely needed to take on dangerous game. Thats not just hunting and killing but also stopping the furry fuzzy nasty . I was reading an artical on the subject, and in the story was a passage where Barnes produced a 220gr elephant/dangerous thing stopper in 30-06. 1st thing is this is not a legal round in most if not all of Africa even though this was how its being marketed. 2nd, if this is fairly universally concidered not a viable stopper, is this type of marketing ethical? 3rd, and if this is a viable dangerous game stopper, am i really one of the dreaded over compensating, over gunned stereo typed people i dismissed as myth, and if true would dread becomming?
 
#2 ·
Well I see your a .338 man. That's good. You realize that rounds like the .303, .30-06, and 7x57 have each killed a great many Many MANY more dangerous game animals than a .338 ever has or will. I mean its not even close. So no, I don't think you are over compensating. Personally I think the .338 is a poor substitute for the .375 in such situations. Still, history doesn't lie. Apparently all those shooters making all those thousands of kills with those lessor rounds weren't as smart as you and I. The animals were killed none the less.
 
#4 ·
I have never been to Africa and probably never will. I am a big believer in the virtues of the 06. Now that being said, if I was to go to Africa after dangerous game, I would carry the fastest, heaviest, widest round I could for 2 or three fast shots in the kill zone at 30,20 and 10 ft. After that it won't matter what gun he eats.
 
#5 ·
Thats not just hunting and killing but also stopping the furry fuzzy nasty .
I remember talking to an older gent years ago about Afican experiences - not mine - and his comment about the .30-06 was "you can kill lions all day long with a .30-06. It will do that quite well. But when one of those big cats comes after you, you want a round that will stop him right there and then. The .30-06 ain't it". One can, I guess, argue the point but it made a great deal of sense then and still does, now that I've become the old gent.
About heavy bullets:
Barnes made - maybe still does - a 250 grain .30 caliber bullet that was a good choice for anyone wanting a heavy weight slug for heavy weight game. It can be loaded to about 2100 fps with current data and some 4831. At one point, there was load data that showed 2400fps +. That was a whomping load.....an attempt to match the British .318 Nitro Express, a succeessful African cartridge.
Pete
 
#6 ·
.30-06 220 grain

I own one of the series of books written back in the very early '70's by Jack O'Connor, ...THE HUNTING RIFLE. In it, on page 111, he states "For frontal shots on charging lions one may possibly need a strong 220-grain bullet ....... This was the medicine used by Stewart Edward White back in the 1920's. He put his trust in strong Western and Remington bullets of that weight for such work." White was a PH at that time and apparently quite a respected PH. I have read that in some countries in Africa a special permit can be issued for the use of the .30-06 in "special need" cases. I've also read of hunters using the '06, just recently, on Cape Buffalo and elephant. By "recently" I am inferring within the last 5 years that these permits were allowed.

I've never been to Africa but I can't believe I'd trust my fate to the .30-06 if I was ever given the chance to hunt there. I'm gutsy, just not stupid. I'd feel much safer using my .375 H&H.

Just an observation to help the thread along.
 
#7 ·
2nd, if this is fairly universally concidered not a viable stopper, is this type of marketing ethical?
Marketing and ethical, is nearly in the same class as lawyers and ethical, but better than politicians and ethical. It's not good.

When was the last time you took lawyers or politicians at their word ;)
 
#9 ·
The 30.06 will "kill" anything on the planet. STOPPING a charge from dangerous game is a whole 'nuther issue. There is a reason why most African countries mandate the .375 H&H as a "minimum" for hunting dangerous game. Since you ask about "stopping", my OPINION is that you should look bigger.

There are some very good articles on this very topic that you can do a search on. In fact, there is a long thread in the African Hunting section of this forum that discusses this quite well.

Dan
 
#10 ·
I watched a video of control officers shooting Elephants using 30-06s with 220 grain solids and they were dropping Elephants with every shot even the one that were coming for them

Jack O'Conner's wife killed her Elephant with a 220 grain solid in the 30-06

The only sure way to stop a charge is with a CNS hit and the 30-06 will most certainly do that, in spades
 
#11 ·
I have experemented with a few of the heavy bullets on elk using a 30-06. From my limited experence the Remington Cor-Lokt's are terrible penatrator. They are way to soft and expand way too fast to be good for much of anything over big deer. I have one bullet from my collection of recovered slugs, taken from a small mule deer. The 220 Remington only penatrated @11"of lung and light muscle. Beautiful mushroom, could have been used in a commercial. When bullets expand fast they get quite large in diameter and thus slow down and fail to penatrate well. A cow elk shot with the same bullet died fast but she was lung shot and the bullet didnt exit hitting no bones. I shot a small cow elk with the Barnes 250 grain bullets from a 30-06. I hit the spine and the bullet stopped inside the spine. Quite poor penatration. Again very large frontal area. I have shot alot of elk with lighter 200 grain Nosler Partitions and these were tremedous penatrators. So if the 200's preformed well I would assume the 220 grain Nosler Partitions would do quite well at getting in deep.
 
#19 ·
An interesting thing to think about, the great elephant hunter Karamajo Bell was asked what he considered the ultimate elephant killer. His response was, a 30 caliber cartridge, shooting a 250 grain solid, traveling at 2500 fps. Sounds about like a hot loaded 30-06 with big barnes bullets. And to think this man may have some real insight into the subject of hunting big hairy stuff.
 
#21 ·
Any round that can sen a bullet into the vitails from any sane angle will get the job done. I don't think that any of those 1000 or so Elephants that Bell took with 6.5, 7mm Mauser and 318 WR are going to come back to life anytime soon.
 
#23 ·
I want whatever round those guys use on Saturday morning on Realtree Outdoors to break down those big deer standing in their food plots. Now that is one devastating round. As long as it will break down a charging man-eater like it does those big whitetails, there would be no problems.
 
#24 ·
Y'know......about W.D.M. Bell, the 7X57, and elephants.
Bell gets mentioned in virtually every discussion like this. "Well, Karamojo Bell killed a thousand elephants and he used a 7X57 Mauser for many of those."
Yes, he did.
Bell's use shows that it is possible not that it is advisable. What is left out of virtually every discussion that cites Bell is that he was a truly remarkable shot......he was known to wing shoot birds with the 7x57 and he was good at that too. How many fellas do you know that are good enough shots to hit birds on the wing with a rifle? Bell is not a good choice for comparison and justification.
Pete
 
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#27 ·
i'm curious how many who have posted on this thread actually have any experience with the animals mentioned! especially the guy who said the 338 was plenty for everything!
there is a huge difference in size and weight of the animals considered the "big 5". these days the big 6 including hippo. there is also a huge difference between shooting undisturbed game and stopping a charge from a wounded or disturbed animal.
in the proper hands, 30-06 is plenty for a wounded cat. its doubtful any who've posted, (myself included), posses those hands.
Bell, Stygand, Lyell and other small bore advocates didn't use said weapons for follow up. they all used large bores for that.
i've seen bull elephants dispatched effectively with 7.62 Nato ball, but i wouldn't count on same to stop a charge, and neither would the highly experienced professionals who were doing it. they all had backup large bores and a bearer/loader.
 
#28 ·
Harry Shelby was quoted as saying the deepest penetration that he ever saw came from a 318 WR the solid shot length wise into a Rhino penetrated 8 1/2 feet of Rhino.

Bell killed a 1000 + Elephants with 6.5's, 7 Mauser 303 British and the 318 WR. Ganyana has stoped 4 Cape Buffalo charges in his career, 2 with the 9.3X62 and 2 with the 7.62 NATO

They ain't armor plated
 
#29 ·
We do alot of African mounts at the taxidermy shop that I work at, and beleive it or not, the hide of a cape buffallo or a elephant isnt as thick as alot of you might think. I have seen Amercian Bison that have had thicker hide. As far as a african lion, we have one in the shop right now that we are mounting, its not a whole lot different than a mountain lion, just bigger, it has reletively thin skin, just like any cat, I would not find any problem shooting one with a 30-06, matter of fact i would be pretty comfortable doing so. A 30-06 will despatch a grizzley, a grizzley is way bigger, heavier boned, and thicker skinned.
 
#31 ·
I had an old bus driver in grade school that I thought was a mean old man, till he found out I liked hunting. He then proceeded to show me his "Hunting Photos" Litterally a 3" thick binder full of African game that he had taken over several trips to Africa and elsewhere. He had his book sectioned off into species taken, He must have had at least 12 elephants.... couple dozen lions and countless others. This was back in the 60's and 70's.

He has since died, but I wish I could have talked to him a little more to pick his brain about hunting Africa.
 
#37 ·
If you want to use a 30-06 on pissed off elephants and lions go right ahead. It won't make a bit of difference as your professional guide(s) will be standing right behind you with their 458 win mags and better. They'll just kill it for you. Yep dead is dead. No matter which gun kills it.

Besides, it's illegal anyways in most countries that I know of. That's like asking if you can use a 17 rem on a black bear. Sure. It's still stupid, though.

The 375 H&H is considered the minimal caliber for a reason. Just like with the 243 win and whitetails. Yeah, the 243 will drop 98 percent of them with no problems. Except the 2 percent won't chase you down and purposely kill you. The big 6 will do just that. Kill you, on purpose. And out of spite.
 
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