[NorthTexas]

We have had a ruger m77 25 06 in the family for years and it used to be a great shooting rifle.

I have loaned it to several people the last few years and was surprised when I got it back that I could no longer get any consistent patterns with it. I tried a whole box of 120 grain cartridges and could barely get paper and even when I got paper no pattern. we allowed the gun to cool.

I blamed it on the ancient scope so I put a new 6x20 scope on it and had the same problem. I took it to a gunsmith and he said everything looked good and tight but he had the same problem with the 120 grain bullets. He said the best pattern that he could ever get was 3 inches with a 100 grain bullet.

He said he could float the barrel for $125 but that was no guarantee.

Any idea what could have happened to the gun? At this point I am going to buy a new gun and mount the new scope on that. Is that my best bet to give up on the 25 06?

 

[broom_jm]

Welcome to ShootersForum, NorthTexas!

I wouldn't give up on any gun, personally. There is almost always a solution to get them shooting well again, although it sometimes costs more than the gun is really worth. In your case, I would definitely look at floating the barrel, as well as giving it a THOROUGH cleaning. Use a bore guide, clean from the breech only, and employ some kind of copper remover. What you're describing really sounds like a rifle that has just gotten fouled with copper deposits.

With that being said, I had a 25-'06 in a Model 70, years ago. It shot 3-4" groups, with my best handloads. To make a long story short, the stock was pushing on the barrel, at the forend. After my dad and I carefully relieved that wood, the group sizes were cut down to 1.5-2". Floating the barrel my help your gun out quite a bit. I'm not sure I'd pay $125 for the service, though.

 

[BrowningBoy710]

I'm not sure I'd pay $125 for the service, though.

that gunsmith would be ripping you a new one.

dowel rod, sandpaper, and sealer are all you need to float the barrel yourself... shouldn't take more than about 10-15 minutes.

the process is just common sense really, slowly sand away at the barrel channel until you can pass a dollar bill under the barrel all the way to the recoil lug. then just seal the wood and you're golden.

 

[Perferator]

that gunsmith would be ripping you a new one.

dowel rod, sandpaper, and sealer are all you need to float the barrel yourself... shouldn't take more than about 10-15 minutes.

the process is just common sense really, slowly sand away at the barrel channel until you can pass a dollar bill under the barrel all the way to the recoil lug. then just seal the wood and you're golden.

....and be sure not to overtighten the action screw.

I'm going to second the suggestion for a thorough bore cleaning. It seems quite commonplace to neglect this important maintenance step.

 

[NorthTexas]

OK thanks for the suggestions. I am going to try the thorough bore cleaning first and then if I feel brave maybe I will attempt to float the barrel myself.

 

[Guidedfishing]

NorthTexas take a good luck at the bore. A good shooting gun does not go south unless something changed. Stock warped, bad cleaning practice.

You said this was a loaner. I would not be so concerned with the shooting that was done, but more so what they did or did not do afterwards. Where was it stored, did someone try and do you a favor and take it apart. The M77 can get funny if someone mucks around with diagonal bedding bolt, I know mine like a particular amount of tightness. After you do a good bore scrubbing look closely at the crown and the last few inch of the muzzle. Maybe some one did a job on the crown and rifling by repeated poor cleaning practices.

If it shot good once and now it does not then something changed don't chuck that rifle until you figure it out.

good luck

GF

 

[Guidedfishing]

sorry but one more item, before you go thru the effort of free floating the barrel there is a little trick you can try to see if that may help. I've done it on M77's before. get an old credit card and cut it out to shim the barrel lug and basically the two other points the bolts go thru. With just a little shiming you can raise the entire barrel out of the action just enough to free float and give it a try before you start sanding. I have one rifle I never took the shims out it worked so well. Just a thought and may give you an idea of what you may expect from the effort to free float the barrel. Sometimes free floating is not the answer or a lengthy round of load development may follow.

Sometime a credit card is to thick and just a thin piece of plastic sheet from some left over packaging will work.

good luck
GF

 

[jswbga]

my bet is its copper fouled. I've seen guns that had a lot of copper plating on them that didnt shoot good.

+1 on good, thorough cleaning.

I'd also check the scope rings, bases, etc... just to be sure. if those screws back out any at all, it'll hose your groups.

I also had a muzzle break put on a rifle several years ago that turned out to not be quite perfect, and my groups (on a benchrest/prairie dog gun) went from <1 inch to off the paper! turns out the new muzzle break was shaving bullets. once I unscrewed it and took it off, my groups were back where they belong. back to the gunsmith on that one, but he got it fixed.

 

[700sage]

Clean, then float the barrel. Every gun I've ever floated the barrel on has become more accurate (with the right load). For the $125 that the gunsmith wants to charge you, you could buy a replacement stock that was pillar bedded AND have a floated barrel! That, along with a through cleaning that removes all copper, should make the gun shoot great! It definitely can't hurt!

 

[Brad4]

I copy Jswbga...My Mod 70 7M08 suddenly started stringing/spraying 4-5 inch groups. I did all the hardware checking, sent the scope back to Burris, etc etc...the solution came in the form of Butches Bore Shine and ISO creme, multiple cleaning sessions and the groups closed back down to 1 1/2 inches....clean that baby and see what happens.

 

[broom_jm]

OK thanks for the suggestions. I am going to try the thorough bore cleaning first and then if I feel brave maybe I will attempt to float the barrel myself.

If you get to the point where you are thinking about floating the barrel, keep in mind that it really IS a pretty easy thing to do yourself. There are different ways to go about it, but I used a wooden dowel about the size of a toilet-paper dispenser (because that's exactly what it was!) with sandpaper wrapped around it. This was used judiciously, with various grits, until the barrel was free-floated for the final 2/3 of its length. I then used boiled linseed oil to treat the barrel channel, but there are other products out there that will do an even better job of protecting the wood, like a poly rub.

 

[NorthTexas]

Wow thanks so much for all of the help! I am excited to try and get her shooting straight again. I ordered some of this online today.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=155799

I will let you know how it goes!

 

[Shawn Crea]

You got good advice NorthTex. If you are confident your 2nd scope is good, then clean - really well - first, and if that doesn't fix it, inspect the crown for burrs, wear, etc. Would think the gunsmith would have done this too, but...

Don't overlook the chamber. Get a chamber mop to make sure it is free of gunk. Midway has those too. Then, if that doesn't correct the problem, check the barrel channel, and at the same time, action screw tightness.

Is it a wood-stocked gun, or synthetic? Did any of those you loaned the gun to clean it, or make any adjustments? How was the gun stored when you loaned it out? What loads were they shooting? Any Barnes bullets? Any moly bullets? These are just some questions that come to mind in trying to zero in on the problem. Let us know the outcome.

 

[mattsbox99]

I almost got a good deal on a poor shooting Ruger once. The owner was very frustrated with the gun, saying it shot 10" groups. I shot it and it was about 5" gun, then I took a look at the bore and saw very little rifling. I cleaned it for the guy, then shot it. He was looking through another rifle scope and said it was doing the same thing. I knew they all went into the same hole though. As we walked up to the target the evidence was right there, poor maintenance had left this great gun inaccurate. The owner then shot a 3" group and called it good, he didn't want to sell me the rifle anymore.

===

If it shot well before, there is no reason it won't shoot well again. I have several Ruger 25/06s and they all shoot 85-120 grain bullets just fine. My go-to bullet for deer is the 115 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. I have yet to meet a rifle that won't shoot that bullet well.

 

[MikeG]

Like several people have said, clean it, and carefully inspect the crown for damage.

 

[NorthTexas]

You got good advice NorthTex. If you are confident your 2nd scope is good, then clean - really well - first, and if that doesn't fix it, inspect the crown for burrs, wear, etc. Would think the gunsmith would have done this too, but...

Don't overlook the chamber. Get a chamber mop to make sure it is free of gunk. Midway has those too. Then, if that doesn't correct the problem, check the barrel channel, and at the same time, action screw tightness.

Is it a wood-stocked gun, or synthetic? Did any of those you loaned the gun to clean it, or make any adjustments? How was the gun stored when you loaned it out? What loads were they shooting? Any Barnes bullets? Any moly bullets? These are just some questions that come to mind in trying to zero in on the problem. Let us know the outcome.

It is a wooden stock and I believe the people I loaned the gun to shot 120 grain Remington bullets. I used that eliminator bore cleaner on it tonight and they were really coming out a bluish green color. I will do one more cleaning with my new bore cleaner and then head to the range. Thank you all very much for the suggestions, this is a great forum full of helpful people you have here!