25-06
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If you are going to use it as a big game rifle, you will not live long enough to burn out the barrel. However, you could wear one out fairly soon if you were shooting hundreds of rounds a day in a prairie dog town. As long as you are not going to use it for some sort of high volume rapid fire, it will last a long time.
Unless you do an extreme amount of shooting then the barrel will outlast you. The cost of the ammo shot will be far in excess of the cost of barrell replacement so if you can afford to burn it out you can afford to rebarrel. Most of the myths about barrel burners are just that myths. The 25-06 is a fantastic all purpose-do all caliber.
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I do 10-20 rebarrels a year and I have only done 1 ever that had the bbl "shot out" most all of my rebarrels are due to damage, for vanity or because I guy just wants a new chambering.
The 25-06 case holds alot of powder for such a small bore rifle. If you expect to get the most from it don't settle for a bbl les then 26" Have you considered the .257 Roberts or .257 Roberts A.I.
The 25-06 case holds alot of powder for such a small bore rifle. If you expect to get the most from it don't settle for a bbl les then 26" Have you considered the .257 Roberts or .257 Roberts A.I.
I believe I have almost 3,000 rounds through my model 70 Winchester Sporter in the 1/4 Bore caliber! I seldom ever load the shells MAX and usually get 6 to 7 reloadings out of the brass before they need to be replaced. My rifle is still shooting under 1-MOA with my handloads at 100 yards.
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Even with an eroded throat, they are usually still minute of deer at 100 yards. I don't even keep track of the rounds I shoot through mine, but its a lot and its still sub MOA.
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I have a Ruger #1 in 25-06. I will come back here and confess if it doesn;t make it, but I expect my barrel to last at least several thousand rounds, IF I can shoot that many before my daughter inherits it......
I think we have this illusion (or maybe delusion), when buying guns, that we're going to shoot thousands of rounds through it, even though we don;t shoot competitively. I mean, this is me thinking here (so shield your eyes). But really, we shoot several hundred out of several rifles in a relatively short period of time, a few more out of this one and a few less out of that one, then we slow down. Our loads have been developed - we know what each rifle likes, and we start slowing down and concentrating on a few specific loads. Now we're got a thousand rounds through the barrel, it's well taken care of, and it's still in its "infant" stage. When are we going to burn this thing out? Uhm....when will my daughter burn the barrel out?.... or her son or daughter?
I think we have this illusion (or maybe delusion), when buying guns, that we're going to shoot thousands of rounds through it, even though we don;t shoot competitively. I mean, this is me thinking here (so shield your eyes). But really, we shoot several hundred out of several rifles in a relatively short period of time, a few more out of this one and a few less out of that one, then we slow down. Our loads have been developed - we know what each rifle likes, and we start slowing down and concentrating on a few specific loads. Now we're got a thousand rounds through the barrel, it's well taken care of, and it's still in its "infant" stage. When are we going to burn this thing out? Uhm....when will my daughter burn the barrel out?.... or her son or daughter?
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Words of wisdom!
Stretch, you make a very good point; most guns never get shot anywhere near enough to actually worry about the barrel or even the throat. When you consider how many accurate used guns, some of them 30, 40, 50 years old, are sitting on gun-store shelves, it's kind of funny that the casual shooter or hunter would hesitate to buy a given cartridge because it's a "barrel burner". 
The one exception I would make to this is the dedicated varmint hunter, shooting a 22-250, 220 Swift or 22 WSSM. Any of those could be shot > 500 times per year and lose the accuracy required for hitting very small targets, at long range. For big game cartridges from the .243 on up, odds are they'll never be shot enough to worry about it.
The one exception I would make to this is the dedicated varmint hunter, shooting a 22-250, 220 Swift or 22 WSSM. Any of those could be shot > 500 times per year and lose the accuracy required for hitting very small targets, at long range. For big game cartridges from the .243 on up, odds are they'll never be shot enough to worry about it.
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Overbore ???
Has anyone EVER seen the "official" definition of an overbore chambering ?? I haven't.
I personally do not consider the .25-'06 overbore....BUT.....who cares about that. I would say that a chambering of the .30-06 powder capacity,simply necked down from .308 to .257 is not near overbore.
I say,if it is a hunting gun, are you gonna feed it a constant diet of 60-75 grainers at max velocity ?? OR....are you gonna feed it the 100-120 grainers at 2800-3000fps ?? If the latter, the .25-06 should last a lifetime or two.
While I'm giving my >$.02 worth,take a look at the Ruger #1V's. That's the one I would pick. -----pruhdlr
Has anyone EVER seen the "official" definition of an overbore chambering ?? I haven't.
I personally do not consider the .25-'06 overbore....BUT.....who cares about that. I would say that a chambering of the .30-06 powder capacity,simply necked down from .308 to .257 is not near overbore.
I say,if it is a hunting gun, are you gonna feed it a constant diet of 60-75 grainers at max velocity ?? OR....are you gonna feed it the 100-120 grainers at 2800-3000fps ?? If the latter, the .25-06 should last a lifetime or two.
While I'm giving my >$.02 worth,take a look at the Ruger #1V's. That's the one I would pick. -----pruhdlr
Not to get too far off-thread, but by pretty much any measure, the 25-'06 is "overbore". There have been many attempts to quantify this term, a very good example of which was penned by our own Rocky Rabb. The one I like is described in the chart found here:
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/overbore-cartridges-a-working-definition
When you consider the 25-'06 has more case capacity, for it's bore size, than a 220 Swift (long reputed to be an overbore, barrel-burner) it is hard to not acknowledge that, if there is such a thing, then the 25-'06 cartridge is certainly guilty of being overbore. In fact, aside from the recent WSM/WSSM offerings, and some of the very long-throated Weatherby rounds, the 25-'06 is among the very worst commercial cartridges, where this nebulous term is concerned.
With that being said, a well-kept 25-'06 barrel that is not over-heated with full-throttle handloads, or by fast and furious prairie-dog annihilation, ought to retain its accuracy for many years and thousands of rounds. Which is to say, as alluded to previously, "overbore" and "shot out" barrels are really only relevant if you're shooting bench rest competitions or enjoy varmint hunting on a regular basis.
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/overbore-cartridges-a-working-definition
When you consider the 25-'06 has more case capacity, for it's bore size, than a 220 Swift (long reputed to be an overbore, barrel-burner) it is hard to not acknowledge that, if there is such a thing, then the 25-'06 cartridge is certainly guilty of being overbore. In fact, aside from the recent WSM/WSSM offerings, and some of the very long-throated Weatherby rounds, the 25-'06 is among the very worst commercial cartridges, where this nebulous term is concerned.
With that being said, a well-kept 25-'06 barrel that is not over-heated with full-throttle handloads, or by fast and furious prairie-dog annihilation, ought to retain its accuracy for many years and thousands of rounds. Which is to say, as alluded to previously, "overbore" and "shot out" barrels are really only relevant if you're shooting bench rest competitions or enjoy varmint hunting on a regular basis.
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A chambering is considered "over bore capacity" when increases in case size results in disproportiantly small increases in velocity. If you compare handloading tables for .308 Norma Mag and .300 win. Mag you would see that the slightly smaller Norma Cartridge produces MV equal to or greater then Win Mag loads useing less propellent. The Normas case size and shape works more efficiantly with the .30 bore.
I have a .280 AI. On two occasions I have allowed 7mm mag shooters I was sharing the range with to use my chrony. Both shooters were stunned to see that my .280 was as fast or faster then there factory 7mag ammo
I have a .280 AI. On two occasions I have allowed 7mm mag shooters I was sharing the range with to use my chrony. Both shooters were stunned to see that my .280 was as fast or faster then there factory 7mag ammo
25-06 Rem
I have had a Remington 25-06 for at least 10 years. Well over 1000 round put thru her. About half were handloads loaded at or near max. She is still just as accurate as she was when I got her. Many many 1/2 inch groups shot at 100 yards. Also shot 2 groups this past Winter that measured 1.5 inch at 300 yards with handloads.
Dang fine caliber!!! Me and my son have put many deer on the ground with it.
I recommend it highly!!!!
Darin
I have had a Remington 25-06 for at least 10 years. Well over 1000 round put thru her. About half were handloads loaded at or near max. She is still just as accurate as she was when I got her. Many many 1/2 inch groups shot at 100 yards. Also shot 2 groups this past Winter that measured 1.5 inch at 300 yards with handloads.
Dang fine caliber!!! Me and my son have put many deer on the ground with it.
I recommend it highly!!!!
Darin
Nope, it is just slightly more overbore than the 25-'06.
The term is nebulous, of course, but as I said earlier: IF such a term can be applied to a select few cartridges, the 25-'06 (and more so, the .257 Weatherby) are most certainly "overbore".
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I don't see how either is, frankly. You can fill the case with the correct powder, and each is faster than the cartridges with lesser capacity, no?
It makes no more sense to call them overbore because they burn "more" powder, than to call my Roberts overbore, because it burns more powder and goes faster than the .250 Savage rifles I own....
It makes no more sense to call them overbore because they burn "more" powder, than to call my Roberts overbore, because it burns more powder and goes faster than the .250 Savage rifles I own....
The term "overbore" refers to a condition wherein the case capacity of a given cartridge is excessive, in relation to the diameter of the bullets fired down the bore of a rifle so chambered. This term is nebulous, hence it cannot be quantified in precise dimensions, but there are certain symptoms which identify this condition, such as throats that erode more rapidly than other cartridges of like caliber and, perhaps most notably, nominal increases in velocity, despite large increases in powder! If you look at the ballistic efficiency of your 257 Roberts, in comparison to the 25-'06, you will see that the Bob achieves 94.6% of the velocity of the '06, while using only 87% as much powder (75gr bullet, IMR-4064).
Would a full-length 375 H&H, necked down to 25 caliber and blown out to a 40 degree shoulder, be overbore? How about an 8mm Rem Mag necked down to 17 caliber; would you agree that such a monster would meet the definition? What I'm asking is, do you even concede that there IS such a thing as a given cartridge being overbore?
I'll say it one last time: If such a condition as "overbore" does exist (which seems to be in dispute, here) the 25-'06, by any measure, would be guilty of such.
Would a full-length 375 H&H, necked down to 25 caliber and blown out to a 40 degree shoulder, be overbore? How about an 8mm Rem Mag necked down to 17 caliber; would you agree that such a monster would meet the definition? What I'm asking is, do you even concede that there IS such a thing as a given cartridge being overbore?
I'll say it one last time: If such a condition as "overbore" does exist (which seems to be in dispute, here) the 25-'06, by any measure, would be guilty of such.
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A cartridge is not over bore because it burns more powder. It's over bore capicity when the increse in case size and charge begins to produce diminished returns. It's not an insult or a slur. It's just a clincal term to decribe a condition. Ex: a 308 win with 48gr. powder and 150 gr. slug produces 2800fps. a 30-06 with 53gr. produces 3000fps and increase of 200 fps. the 300 win mag uses 76gr and produces 3200fps. adding 5 grains increased the 06 by 200 fps over the 308. adding 22gr more in the 300 win mag added 200 fps over the 06.
the 300 win mag is over bore capicity
the 300 win mag is over bore capicity
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Broom jim,
Please explain to me how the 220Swift is overbore.
"Overbore" is a condition of the expansion ratio of a cartridge being so large (low numbered) that an increase in capacity makes little or no effect upon velocity. It is a direct relationship between the expansion ratio and burn rate of the available powder.
A very good example of this is the 7mmRUM, it barely makes use of the slowest powders available to get an increase over the various other 7mm magnums. If the same powder that's efficient in the 7mmRM for example is used in the RUM case, there's barely an increase in velocity, even though the charge may be 10-15% larger in capacity
.
Throat erosion has nothing to do with "overbore capacity", it has everything to do with the type of powder you use and how fast you shoot. Even a .222 can be cooked by shooting it too fast and using a powder of the wrong burn rate! With normal use, 10,000 rounds is not uncommon for a .222 to withstand with normal accuracy!
Shotgunsmith,
The 300WinMag isn't overbore by any stretch of the imagination. There are cartridges out there that are quite faster and still have not reached an "overbore" situation. Even the huge 30-378 isn't at an "overbore" situation, but it's getting at the end of capacity usage before an "overbore" situation is reached. But with new powders being developed every other week I can predict that "overbore capacity" will never be reached again.
Some interesting facts.
To clarify, "overbore" was once true, but only in the aspect of the powders available at the time it was dreamed up. When the 25-06 was first experimented with there was no powder available that could be used to increase velocity over the 257Bob by any significance, so it was dubbed "overbore" at the time. This is no longer true of that cartridge, or in fact nearly all cartridges.
It was even once touted that the 270 was overbore, then came along 4831 and WOW! it became one of the most efficient cartridges ever devised!
Have a look at what Mr Allen has achieved with his "Allen Mags", if "overbore" capacity was true in this day and age then none would have gotten off the ground!
The 25-06 is a wonderfully accurate cartridge and will last a lifetime with proper care, don't shoot it until the barrel melts and it will give you a few thousand rounds down it before it gives up the ghost.
I have 2 and they both are a joy to shoot. The 25-06 really is a 1/4 bore "magnum", if the truth be known!
Please explain to me how the 220Swift is overbore.
"Overbore" is a condition of the expansion ratio of a cartridge being so large (low numbered) that an increase in capacity makes little or no effect upon velocity. It is a direct relationship between the expansion ratio and burn rate of the available powder.
A very good example of this is the 7mmRUM, it barely makes use of the slowest powders available to get an increase over the various other 7mm magnums. If the same powder that's efficient in the 7mmRM for example is used in the RUM case, there's barely an increase in velocity, even though the charge may be 10-15% larger in capacity
.
Throat erosion has nothing to do with "overbore capacity", it has everything to do with the type of powder you use and how fast you shoot. Even a .222 can be cooked by shooting it too fast and using a powder of the wrong burn rate! With normal use, 10,000 rounds is not uncommon for a .222 to withstand with normal accuracy!
Shotgunsmith,
The 300WinMag isn't overbore by any stretch of the imagination. There are cartridges out there that are quite faster and still have not reached an "overbore" situation. Even the huge 30-378 isn't at an "overbore" situation, but it's getting at the end of capacity usage before an "overbore" situation is reached. But with new powders being developed every other week I can predict that "overbore capacity" will never be reached again.
Some interesting facts.
To clarify, "overbore" was once true, but only in the aspect of the powders available at the time it was dreamed up. When the 25-06 was first experimented with there was no powder available that could be used to increase velocity over the 257Bob by any significance, so it was dubbed "overbore" at the time. This is no longer true of that cartridge, or in fact nearly all cartridges.
It was even once touted that the 270 was overbore, then came along 4831 and WOW! it became one of the most efficient cartridges ever devised!
Have a look at what Mr Allen has achieved with his "Allen Mags", if "overbore" capacity was true in this day and age then none would have gotten off the ground!
The 25-06 is a wonderfully accurate cartridge and will last a lifetime with proper care, don't shoot it until the barrel melts and it will give you a few thousand rounds down it before it gives up the ghost.
I have 2 and they both are a joy to shoot. The 25-06 really is a 1/4 bore "magnum", if the truth be known!
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