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Discussion Starter #1
For many years I've thought about making rifle using the mini mark x action. These come chambered for the 223/ 5.56 cart.
While looking at that action I had the idea that a 25 caliber cast slug on the 223/5.56 would make the ultimate squirrel gun. With a bit of tinkering this combo could be almost bench rest accurate.
A 80 to 100 grain bullet out of a good hard alloy would be pure death on squirrels. May even be accurate enough for some of the Cast Bullet Assoc. matchs.
Any thoughts and suggestions.
Jim
 

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Two existing wildcats come to mind at once....25-222 Copperhead and the .25x47mm. Both are super efficient cartridges using both cast and jacketed bullets. John Wooters and Wayne Blackwell have done lots of research on these two! Plus the reamer specs are already set. The.25-.222 Copperhead case holds 26 grs of water to the neck @ 23.33 grs of powder, where the .25x47mm (.25-.223) holds 19.5 grs of water to the neck @ 25.34 grs of powder. Some people will lean toward the .25x47mm because of military brass, but that seems a little silly to me. Brass doesn't cost "that" much.
I like the Copperhead best due to its longer neck .325" Vs .319 for the .25x47mm. This is very important when considering cast bullets. I, for one, have found .222 Remington brass (.25x.222 coperhead) to be much more uniform than .223 brass. The difference of 3.5 grs of powder is not going to make one and brake the other. Any rifle made for the .223 Remington would be excellent for both.
Best Regards, James  

(Edited by James Gates at 3:14 pm on Mar. 3, 2001)
 

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Gentlemen:

The 25-222 Copperhead is based on the 222 Remington case as noted.  The 25x47mm however is based on the less available case of the 222 Remington Magnum cartridge.  While cases can be formed for the latter using the 223 as a parent case, a shorter neck is the result as the body of the 222 Rem Mag is a little longer than the 223.  A closer approximation of performance may be obtained by looking at the data for TCU cartridges.  I too am interested in a cartridge like this - seems like an ultimate little gun.

regards,

redleg

(Edited by redleg155 at 4:34 pm on Mar. 5, 2001)
 

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I stand corrected...John Wooters, who designed the .25-222 copperhead or Wayne Blackwell did put together wildcat called .25x45mm on the .223 case. In my old age I confused the two. Sorry about that. Oh well........! I still think the .25 on th .222 Rem. is tops!
Added by edit...Wayne Blackwll did set up the
.25x45mm with a shorter neck but with the same powder capacity. Maybe because .222 rem. Mag. brass was getting scarce?...jcg

(Edited by James Gates at 7:13 pm on Mar. 5, 2001)
 

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If it is squirells you want to shoot, but keep the noise down, one needs to look at bullet friction and expansion ratio.

I am working a wildcat for this myself right now, and having trouble beating the .177 sping loaded pellet rifle.

To undersand this, imagine a 30-06 loaded down to a 32 acp velocity with copper jaceted bullets. The same energy from a .32 acp rifle shooting lead bullets will make a tiny fraction of the noise.

Some guys cannot imagine this until I say it is like calculating the compression ratio of an engine. The 22 Hornet is a much higher compression ratio than a 220 swift. And as a result the 220 Swift is much more noisy at the same velocity.

And you need a long barrel. A 1911 is noisy with no powder, just the primer will make a barrel that short have a supersonic escaping gas ball.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You are correct, I could have a quieter, more efficient squirrel getter with the pellet gun. For me it's the exercise of working up the rifle, then the bullets, etc. I suppose it's the challenge of finding out what the limits are within the particular caliber.
When I get thru with the rifle, I put it into the rack and when one of my son-in-laws needs a rifle I pass it on. Of course a wild cat would be a bit more bothersome for them to work with.
Jim
 

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arkypete,  
It took a while for me to reply since I've been going through the CH4D online catalog since seeing your post.  I've found these folks a wealth of information whenever my taste in cartridges has gone over the edge to wildcats.  Go to page 19 of their online catalog and click "die list continued" to get to their .25-223 dies.  They list three versions - one with an unaltered shoulder, one with a 30 degree shoulder and one with a 40 degree shoulder.  I've found CH4D to be a great company.  I have this older Remington 700ADL .222 that'll get rebarrelled into 6mm-223 or .25-223 whenever the barrel gives up the ghost.  Trouble is, the thing still shoots nice little round 3/4MOA groups after thirty plus years including a few when my dad shot this a lot when he needed a low recoil rifle after detached retina surgery.  Interesting project!  Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Both Saeco and RCBS have really fine molds for the .243. Long bore riding noses, weighing about 100 grains, that worked wonderfully in the Ruger 243. I think Colorado Molds (Hoch) to make these in 25 caliber. The molds being nose pour they should produce wonderfully accurate bullets weighing 110 to 120 grains.
Jim
 

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I know we're talking .25 caliber here, but have you considered .24 caliber?

Sam Fadala did some work some years ago with the .222 opened up to take .243 bullets. His intent was a medium range deer and antelope round, at which it excelled. But it should be murder on squirrels. Incidentally, the rifle was built on a Sako action by Dale Storey.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Gila

Thanks!
I've got several friends keeping an eye peeled for a Mini Mauser action. This little action was scaled down to the 223 cartridge and it would seem to me just about right for the conversion. I've even got a 25 caliber hammer forged medium target weight barrel leaning up against the wall waiting for the action to appear.
Jim
 
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