I've long wanted a .25 cal. I've never had a chance to shoot any but do like what I've heard about the .25-06, the only thing is I don't like long action rifles for hunting. What else is there? I think they made a .25 WSM and I'm not a fan of the short magnums.
.25 Cal Options
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The .25 WSSM, is pretty much extinct. Check out the .257 Roberts. It will push a 120gr bullet to 2800 fps or so, and comes in short actions. Something else to consider is the .260 Remington. It uses a .264 caliber bullet, and is based on the .308 Win case. Not to mention the .260 Rem can be had in many different rifles.
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I can't think of anything in the class you like but the .257 Roberts that has already been mentioned. Theres the .250 savage. Its a good little cartridge, but not a lot of zip. I know a guy thats got one and loves it in the woods though. Do you handload? If you do that opens up some more. Theres the .25 Souper. Its a .308 necked down to .25. Or a .243 necked up.
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According to the ballistic data for Winchester's ammunition, the .25 WSSM and the .25-06 are equal performers. Winchester and Browning made rifles with super-short actions for a brief period, but gave that up around the time Winchester went under. There are still some of these available on GunBroker, NIB, chambered in .25 WSSM. Olympic Arms is the only manufacturer still making guns in this caliber. However if you are like me, you will hesitate to go out into the field to hunt with an Evil Black Rifle, simply as a matter of taste. Winchester is currently the only source of factory ammunition. Brass and dies are easily available.
The .257 Roberts is the obvious choice for a short action, and there are plenty of rifles to choose from in this caliber. Performance is reduced compared to the .25-06 or the .25 WSSM, but still fully capable of taking big game at normal hunting ranges.
The .257 Roberts is the obvious choice for a short action, and there are plenty of rifles to choose from in this caliber. Performance is reduced compared to the .25-06 or the .25 WSSM, but still fully capable of taking big game at normal hunting ranges.
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You might want to think about the velocities that you want with the bullet weights you want, that may eliminate your choices. Also, decide if the action difference is a bigger factor for you than a ballistic difference, because there is one. The Roberts is a fine cartridge if that's the velocity range you like. The 25WSSM was loaded to higher pressures than the average 25-06 factory loads to make it appear to have the same power level, especially with heavy bullets it does NOT. With reloads,both loaded to equal pressures the 25-06 is the runaway winner, again if the action length is more important for you, that is cool. I have short & long actions & I seldom notice that 3/4"-1" diff. of the few ounces, but either way you go, I hope you get a shooter.
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Why did no one mention the .257 AI? Near-.25-06 performance, cheap brass, easy to load, and a classic.
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For many years, 8 decades really, the 270 Winchester has dominated the list of cartridges between 22 and 30 caliber. Until the 308 Winchester came along and spawned the 243 Winchester, other cartridges were overshadowed by the sheer perfection that is the 270 Win. The 25 and 26 caliber offerings just haven't done that well, as a result. If you wanted more than a hot 22 for varmints, you stepped up .050" to a 270, bypassing the options in-between, even though there have been many that were quite useful. The 270 Win was so good that, despite being in the top 3 listing of guns sold annually, the ONLY other commercially available cartridge of note, shooting .277" bullets, was the 270 Weatherby. In fact, Roy was offering the highest praise by imitating, with one of his very first rifles, the all-time classic Western deer cartridge.
This sounds like a love fest for the 270 Winchester, and I freely admit to being an unabashed fan, but my point is to illustrate why there are so few options available in 25 caliber. Aside from quite a number of interesting wildcats, there are only about five cartridges for the quarter-bore that have drawn more than a small amount of interest. In order of top velocity, they are the 250/3000 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25WSSM, 25-'06 and 257 Weatherby. Of these, the first two were once quite popular, the WSSM was a complete flop, and the 25-'06 has hung around, for good reason. The 257 Roy suffers the same fate as all Weatherby rounds; they are more expensive to buy and reload for, though they do provide a real step up, in performance.
If you are bound and determined to get a 25, the '06 or Bob is your best bet. Of the two, I frankly prefer the 257 Roberts. They are efficient cases with an appropriate amount of powder for the bullets and bore diameter in question, which gives handloaders an excellent round to load small bullets for varmints and heavier ones for medium-sized, thin-skinned game, like deer and wild hogs. The 25-'06 does the same, but IMHO, uses more powder than is really necessary for the job at hand. If you neck a 25-'06 up by .020", then ya got somethin'!
As a footnote: It has always perplexed me how the 308 Winchester could be such a great short-action cartridge, spawning a tremendously popular offspring in the 243, perhaps the best iteration of the case design, in the 7mm/08 and yet, wildcats in the 25/08 or 27/08 have simply not gained any popularity. Even the 260 Remington hasn't gotten much love, despite being a great little round. Some things just don't make sense, I guess.
This sounds like a love fest for the 270 Winchester, and I freely admit to being an unabashed fan, but my point is to illustrate why there are so few options available in 25 caliber. Aside from quite a number of interesting wildcats, there are only about five cartridges for the quarter-bore that have drawn more than a small amount of interest. In order of top velocity, they are the 250/3000 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25WSSM, 25-'06 and 257 Weatherby. Of these, the first two were once quite popular, the WSSM was a complete flop, and the 25-'06 has hung around, for good reason. The 257 Roy suffers the same fate as all Weatherby rounds; they are more expensive to buy and reload for, though they do provide a real step up, in performance.
If you are bound and determined to get a 25, the '06 or Bob is your best bet. Of the two, I frankly prefer the 257 Roberts. They are efficient cases with an appropriate amount of powder for the bullets and bore diameter in question, which gives handloaders an excellent round to load small bullets for varmints and heavier ones for medium-sized, thin-skinned game, like deer and wild hogs. The 25-'06 does the same, but IMHO, uses more powder than is really necessary for the job at hand. If you neck a 25-'06 up by .020", then ya got somethin'!
As a footnote: It has always perplexed me how the 308 Winchester could be such a great short-action cartridge, spawning a tremendously popular offspring in the 243, perhaps the best iteration of the case design, in the 7mm/08 and yet, wildcats in the 25/08 or 27/08 have simply not gained any popularity. Even the 260 Remington hasn't gotten much love, despite being a great little round. Some things just don't make sense, I guess.
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The 257 Roberts is not a 'short action' cartridge. It's case is 2.233" long, based on the 7x57 case. Anyone that chambers it will do so in their std 'long action'...I think so anyway. It is a 'tweener in cartridge length. Too long for the short action for 308 Win cases (2.015" long), but great for seating heavy bullets out long in long actions. At least that's how it was in the tang-safety Ruger M77 I had. Great cartridge, whatever it is available in (which is few).
I have a 25-06 and think it's a great cartridge, and coupled with the 257 Weatherby, about the only two 'mainstream 25's available anymore.
Kimber does offer the 257 Roberts in their 'special edition' rifles along with 308 Win chambering. I don't know if this is a 'short action'.
EDIT: I searched and found that Ruger offers two models in the 257 Roberts (Hawkeye and Hawkeye Ultralite, and Winchester in their custom offering (you'll pay dearly for that one).
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/SpecialEdition/
I have a 25-06 and think it's a great cartridge, and coupled with the 257 Weatherby, about the only two 'mainstream 25's available anymore.
Kimber does offer the 257 Roberts in their 'special edition' rifles along with 308 Win chambering. I don't know if this is a 'short action'.
EDIT: I searched and found that Ruger offers two models in the 257 Roberts (Hawkeye and Hawkeye Ultralite, and Winchester in their custom offering (you'll pay dearly for that one).
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/SpecialEdition/
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Depends on your goals, and abilities. If you are a handloader then nothing is out of the question.
I have a fondness for the .25 cal rifles. The .250 Savage does the job well on deer and pigs. Light recoil, easy to shoot, easy on bullets. My dad and my son have both used it on whitetail, and I've killed pigs with one. Factory ammo is available. Handloading is easy and any 100gr. soft point will hold together and penetrate on these sized animals. Don't know what you can find in factory rifles these days, though. Too bad as it's a great cartridge for the beginner and experienced hunter alike.
.257 Roberts... my second big game rifle after the .30-06. Got one as a gift and well, even though I turned up my nose to start, found out how wrong I was. Deer and pigs just seemed to drop like they had been poisoned. Again, it's easy to handload for and easy on bullets. Shot a few varmits as well with 75gr. HPs. Might not be a "long action" or a "short action" cartridge, but who the heck cares? If it works, it works! Isn't that what matters? To me, nit-picking about such things while you are skinning a deer out that you shot with the 'wrong' cartridge is the height of ignorance.
I don't have a .25-06 but my dad does and loves it. Can't say anything bad about it, except be careful where you shoot the critters with plastic-tipped bullets.
My favorite story about the .25-06 was Dad telling me about a deer he shot out of a barn loft one year. I asked him if he stepped it off, and he said no, but he did check the odometer on the truck as he drove out to get it ....
My .257 Weatherby is a little hard on bullets. Have shot my best two bucks with it so ????
Just a few opinions.....
I have a fondness for the .25 cal rifles. The .250 Savage does the job well on deer and pigs. Light recoil, easy to shoot, easy on bullets. My dad and my son have both used it on whitetail, and I've killed pigs with one. Factory ammo is available. Handloading is easy and any 100gr. soft point will hold together and penetrate on these sized animals. Don't know what you can find in factory rifles these days, though. Too bad as it's a great cartridge for the beginner and experienced hunter alike.
.257 Roberts... my second big game rifle after the .30-06. Got one as a gift and well, even though I turned up my nose to start, found out how wrong I was. Deer and pigs just seemed to drop like they had been poisoned. Again, it's easy to handload for and easy on bullets. Shot a few varmits as well with 75gr. HPs. Might not be a "long action" or a "short action" cartridge, but who the heck cares? If it works, it works! Isn't that what matters? To me, nit-picking about such things while you are skinning a deer out that you shot with the 'wrong' cartridge is the height of ignorance.
I don't have a .25-06 but my dad does and loves it. Can't say anything bad about it, except be careful where you shoot the critters with plastic-tipped bullets.
My favorite story about the .25-06 was Dad telling me about a deer he shot out of a barn loft one year. I asked him if he stepped it off, and he said no, but he did check the odometer on the truck as he drove out to get it ....
My .257 Weatherby is a little hard on bullets. Have shot my best two bucks with it so ????
Just a few opinions.....
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I love my .257wby. It's a hotrod round, shoots incredibly flat and zaps deer dead. The only thing one wont like about it is the cost of ammo. But that doesnt pester me since I handload. And if you handload you can also finetune accuracy.
Check it out.
Check it out.
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380 Posts
I have three 257Roberts rifles, two built on small ring Mauser actions and one on a large ring mauser action. I have a 25-06 rifle and about five other cartridge rifles in various calibers. If I ever hunted whitetail again, it would be with one of my 257Roberts.
Just about all the .25's are a great choice, when you start getting into the .25WSSM, 25-06 and .257 WHBY premium bullets are a must to avoid bullet failure/excess meat damage up close. I guess I am one of the few that has a real love affair with the .25WSSM (I have 3) with Reloader 17 and lighter bullets it will surpass the 25-06 (I am down to just 1 25-06), the 25-06 still has the edge with the heavier bullets. If you don't reload the .25WSSM isn't a very good choice.
the ruger version of the bob would be on a 3.34" magazine which would be a bit shorter than the remington long action... personally i don't see what difference an inch, give or take, of action length matters. i use short actions, mausers with their intermediate length and full length actions and don't see any real difference but to each his own i guess....
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The 84M is Kimber's leight-weight short-action rifle. I didn't know until you mentioned it that they had dropped a lot of their chamberings in many varieties of the rifle. (I have a Classic in .260 Remington, which, according to their web site, is not offered now.)
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I suggested the .260 first, and I think it is about what you seek. Although personally CFX, I would just step up one more notch in the .308 based cases. The 7mm-08 Rem is one of my absolute favorites. Ammo selection out the wazoo, and for the handloader oppurtunitys are endless in the 7mm bores.
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I think there two things to consider, 1st the mission, White Tail? Mulies? Prong Horn? 2nd do you hand load. If you after just after White Tail deer it would be hard to beat the 257 Roberts, If you hand load a 257 Roberts Improved I feel will fill the bill for all three, If you don't hand load the only choices are the
25-06 or the 257Wby. That's just IMHO.
25-06 or the 257Wby. That's just IMHO.
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What bullets do you prefer?
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