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Did the 250 Savage actually hit 3000 fps back in the day or was it an advertising ploy? As I understand chronographs weren't availabe to masses like they are now. Could see how they could round off, for example, 2955 fps and call it 3000. Who would know?

The ol' skeptical me showing here.
from my understanding it did hit 3000 ftps and while at that time the general public didn't have access to cheap chronographs there competition did and would have made sure everyone knew it didn't as it cut into their sales. from what I've read it really was a very good gun but when it was offered in 300 savage it was out classed as the 300 was by far the more versatile big game cartridge even tho the 250-3000 was by all accounts a great deer killer.
 

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C&H Dies...this happy customer

First up, I could have done better getting this rifle going.:eek: No doubt that C&D die are excellent as is the service. Earlier, the owner spoke to me concerning dents in the 270 as it was formed into the 256. Dimensions commonly shown for the 256 are not standard. For example, there is some controversy over COL. The problem appears to be at the base of the shoulder. Called C&H yesterday. Rep explained that CH was twelve months behind plus a 100.00 set up cost for setup for custom die made from fired cases. I have been treated very well by that company. I was spoiled by RCBS custom dies. Have here three sets of custom RCBS dies in use. I was also working with a 1973 vintage set of RCBS dies. My problem may be "sticker shock," Once made, I was told by C&H rep, the my die could not be modified. As things stand now neck sizing is done with a barrel resizer from a universal Lyman 310 tool set for 6.5 mm cartridges. The entire project is work in progress. For person making up a rifle where money is no object spending $200.00 for dies is trivial. That's not here on the hill. These comments should not be seen as a criticism of anybody. As stated I could have done better getting this project going. The custom dies would have cost the same regardless of how the project was managed. Thanks for your comments on dies.
 

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WAR-- Dies are altered all the time!! They can't be made smaller though! :)

Most dies, even seaters are harder'n woodpecker lips with heavy case hardening or some through hardened, so grinding and lapping are the processes used. What are you trying to do?
 

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22 Savage High Powder.

I recall comments made about original advertising for the High Power. Savage advertising got much mileage from small caliber high velocity effectiveness. There was a couple of years between the High Power and 250-3000. Looks like the boys at Savage may have been on a roll.
 

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Die Modifications

Jack: Thanks for your comments. The reason from the company was their dies were hardened to Rockwell 50. Modifying their dies was not possible-by them. Set up cost and cost of new dies plus year's wait had be factored in. The idea of having those dies attacked by another did not warm the cockles of my heart. :eek::eek: Please. remember I'm owning my part in this situation. This belongs to me not them!
 

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What alterations have you got to do? I can steer you through it. Rc is way too hard for a REAMER, but that does not mean the die can't be altered.
 

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Fixing Dies

I have a good grasp on my own limitations. Finding more out ever so often. The problem area surfaces in the shoulder as described-fired case appears overly large for the dies. Backing the sizing out for neck sizing is a problem. The area below the shoulder of the case contacts the sizing die long before normal. Due to length of neck and taper problem area may be further down on the case. All this is way beyond my skills. Having two set of dies put me in the mind of having the old 1973 RCBS dies modified by others. I got them on a close out for $7.50 in the late 1970's. Got some variables to work with here. The problem looks lie it's more with the rifle than the dies. Both sets of dies have the same results. We are OT. How about shooting me a private message. Thanks for the help on this and other projects.
 

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I'll write up a method of fitting any FL die and post it separate. Someone half handy with an electric drill and bench grinder can do it.
 

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Modifying dies and building a 250-3000

Thanks for your help. Looking forward to you information on modifying a sizing die. Having two sets of dies does give me more confidence. :rolleyes:

Building a 250-3000: Got an extra 243 Model Seven Remington that's a problem child. How about rebarreling that otherwise good rifle to 250-3000. This would include bedding and all that implies. Have brass and dies from loading for my 99.
 

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I just posted "Fitting Full Length Dies" to the handloading tools and procedures forum.

The 250 Sav. is one of the most inherently accurate and fun to shoot rounds in the world. My shooting partner in GS school was Will Abshire. He built a #7 SS barreled 722 'bull gun' just after I left school and just cleaned house with it! He brought it to Florida with him in the summer of '69 and we shot crows until there seemed to be a shortage (of dumb ones).
 

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Your Model 7 is a natural for the 'two filthy three thousand' as Dean Wentworth said it. That is essentially a Model 600 action with a civilized bolt handle and will make anything from a carbine to a full sized target rifle.
 

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W.A. Reed,

I sympathize with your problem with C&H. I still cry when I think about the old days when you could send RCBS 3 fired cases and your sizing die and they would modify it for next to nothing.

A .243 rifle would be an excellent candidate for rebarreling to .250-3000. But from personal experience I think you're going to want a completely different die set and brass dedicated to that rifle. AND KEPT TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM YOUR 99 STUFF.

In General,
When I got my first Chrongraph in 1989 I took an old YELLOW BOX of WINCHESTER .250-3000 AMMO WITH THE 87gr BULLET from the 1960's that I had hoarded and shot the entire 20rds over the Chronograph. A Velocity average out of the old 99A's 24" barrel was 3014FPS.
 

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from my understanding it did hit 3000 ftps and while at that time the general public didn't have access to cheap chronographs there competition did and would have made sure everyone knew it didn't as it cut into their sales. from what I've read it really was a very good gun but when it was offered in 300 savage it was out classed as the 300 was by far the more versatile big game cartridge even tho the 250-3000 was by all accounts a great deer killer.
Thanks for the response. Reason I asked and had doubts, was back when I had a M99f and started handloading for it the max loads couldn't be approached without running into pressure signs. Back then I didn't have access to a chronograph but the bullet drops didn't match the velocities indicated in the data tables.

You are correct on the .250 being a deer killing machine.
 

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Die's

Thanks for your chronograph data. Some what earlier in time we chronographed some old factory loads for 257 Roberts 117 gr. cartridges More horsepower than generally believed.

It was easy to put something in print when the average shooter has no means of testing. Some crap got a life of its own before the age of the net. I had just gotten an Ohler 33. We ran some data on a 240 Gebby Super Varminter ( snarky name for a 6mm-06). The round fell some short of the Ackley data. Rifle's owner offered that the round was, no doubt, tested on another machine. That's life. It was rumored that others traded off satisfactory rifles when piece failed the chronographed. A friend is working on a Factory FN made 250-3000. Now rechambered to 25-06 at some time in the past. An act of desecration.

Model Seven: What would you think of a light dual purpose rifle made on the action in 250. The rifle would be some heavier than the stock Model Seven. Use a Remington laminated stock re-bedded. Come up with something without "setting the satchel down."
 

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A friend is working on a Factory FN made 250-3000. Now rechambered to 25-06 at some time in the past. An act of desecration.
THAT is a hanging offense by international decree! ....or should be, IMO. ;)

I've told the story here before of ways to separate clients on an elk hunt from green money (which some seemed anxious to do). Any hunter with a Weatherby rifle and ammo got the velocity test by chronograph. I'd pay a dollar for any foot second above what was on the box if he'd pay a dollar for every foot second below. The chronograph was set up at 8,000 ft altitude and .22 LR were shot for calibration. The client had the advantage by altitude, he thought. (Altitude makes a difference in ballistics but not velocity.)
Some .270 Weatherby (Norma) ammo was 250 ft per second short of advertized, but smearing primers and melting snow with muzzle blast. Some had an inch and a half of smooth, free-bore, too!
By contrast, W-W and R-P ammo was almost always within expected barrel length variance.

I LIKE the Model 7 action for short, compact rifles or carbines. A M7 action with blind box magazine, steel trigger guard and nice piece of Juglans Regia walnut with a 20 inch #2 taper barrel only weighs 6 lbs unless you weigh it down with steel buttplates, grip caps, swivels and quarter ribs and stuff. They also make great varmint rifles.
 

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Die's and Small and large Cartridges

You gotta remember this is American where more is always better. I was tinkering with a Vanguard in 300 Weatherby. Net result is to pick a magnum. Most all them shoot a 180gr. bullet 3000 fps period.

Yes, RCBS spoiled us in the day. Looks like RCBS no longer offers custom dies as they did. Three things may have happened. The people that did the work died or retired. Thirdly, the bean counter attack got them. RCBS no longer offered the 256 dies that I was seeking. I would call them anyway. If you don't ask the answer is always no.

I'm seeing some signs that some of the older cartridges are not so dead. The prime example is 257 Roberts. The 250 and 300 are highly efficient cartridges. Wonder the number of "built" rifles is in these "dead cartridges?" Are the CM, 260 and 7mm-08 highly efficient well balanced cartridge? We are better for it. A bunch of bang for the bucks.
 

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Light handy dual purpose hunting rifle, did someone say? My dad frankensteined a .250 Savage hunting rifle together for my son, on a k98 action and various other odds and ends. Barrel came from Midway with a stock; probably a Shaw. 1-10" twist stabilizes 117 and 120gr. bullets. 100gr. Speer Hot-Cores will punch through a pig's head, no problem (well, it is a problem for the pig, albeit briefly :p ).

Barrel is a little over 20" and not really sure on the exact measurement.

Yeah it would have made more sense to make it a .257 Roberts, and I had dies for that as well, but dad had a .250 Savage reamer, a .25 cal barrel, and I had .250 Savage dies. So.... that's what it got made into.

Epoxy-painted the metal then my son rattle-canned over that (except the scope).

It is a wonderful rifle for light big game. I'll try to find a picture.
 

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A home made rifle in 257 Roberts:

A home made rifle in 257 Roberts: The Rifle the wouldn't work.:eek: Some years back a fever came for another rifle. The action was come from a Savage 110. The barrel in 257 Roberts was a A&B from Midway (24" 1/10). The stock was a standard Hogue. The scope was an semi-antique Leupold 8x with old Redfield base and rings.The rifle accessorized with a made in China knock-off Harris bi-pod. Out the door after zero the first three shot group was three forths inch. These barrels, now gone, were rough but settled in. There was green slime to deal with at the first. Accurate. The rifle continues to perform very well. On the net most all this stuff is no good and will not give decent performance. Right?
 

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Model 7 action , 20" barrel. light rifle. But with 18-20"bbl you'll be better of sticking to 90-100gr for deer.

LOVE THE 25 CALIBER. In my old age I'm down to a M77-.250, a .25-06 in an Old Vanguard. And a really old Family gun in .257 ROBERTS built on a 1917 action, built fot old factory type ammo. So I have to deal with a shortened mag box & NO throat. But it still shoots better that I can these days.

.257 Weatherby Mag with big scope, great for Pronghorn if the wind is not too bad. Sold mine when I chronographed it's 24"bbl & discovered it was only 150fps faster than my 24"bbl .25-06. 55gr H4831 vs 62gr H4831, and the brass/ammo cost twice as much in some cases.
 
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