Shooters Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I included this in another thread and didn't receive a reply, so will start a new thread.

I was gifted about 800 Hornady 150 gr. FP and loaded up a bunch for my O3-A3's. They shot really great, but I did have one little issue I thought I would ask about. I put 15 rounds through it with the original peep sights. I thought I did pretty well. Next time, I will try a black bull to see if I can tighten it up a bit.

Amber Orange Circle Symmetry Wood


Anyway, all 15 rounds had the primers back out slightly. Probably a few thousandths of an inch. Enough that you could definitely feel it with your thumb. I did have one neck crack, but all other loads look fine. The neck crack was from a batch of R-P brass that I bought from Diamond K that had some from Remington that were used in their pressure testing apparatus. Below is their disclaimer and if you look closely in my photo, you can see the indentation just below the bottom of the neck taper.

Any thoughts on the primer situation? The loads are 54 gr. of WW 760 with Herter's primer. They are Minimum in all my books, but not for that exact bullet. My 06 dies are from the 60's, but I cannot imagine that being an issue. My thinking is that I bumped the shoulder back a little bit too much causing a slight headspace issue. I'll load these up after backing off the sizing die a bit and see what happens.

Food Rectangle Table Gas Cuisine
Hand Drinkware Beer Liquid Bottle
Liquid Bottle Drinkware Cosmetics Wood


DISCLAIMER: Some of the Remington-Peters Rifle brass has a circular mark just beneath the case neck which is an impression left by the piston hole ring attachment that pressure checks the brass. We had samples sent in and tested to ensure that it DOES NOT compromise the integrity of the brass. To our understanding, it is purely a cosmetic issue and not one that affects the quality of the brass. It is not on all of the casings, only some of them. However, if you experience any issues with them please feel free to contact us and we will make it right.
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
37,700 Posts
Primers backing out is a symptom of a low(er) pressure load. So it isn't a bad thing for what you are doing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
320 Posts
I concur with MikeG, (disclaimer) actual experience is minimal, however I have read about this sort of thing from multiple sources many years ago, pressure and their signs have not changed and nor will they. I truly believe you're ok JW. Consideration might be given to bumping your load up, just a tad?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks. A few of the necks were a bit sooty so that might explain it. I had some other loads with Varget and 4895, but didn't try them. I had been trying to use up that WW 760.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,902 Posts
Yep! All primers push out like that, but at normal rifle pressures the sides of the case stick to the chamber walls while the pressure builds up until it pushes on the unexpanded head hard enough that the brass yields at the pressure ring and stretches, letting the head be pushed back against the bolt face, reseating the primer. Low pressure is not strong enough to stretch the case at the pressure ring before the pressure peak is passed, so it won't complete that part of the firing cycle, and the primer is left sticking out.

Part of the cause is your powder is on the slow side for a 150-grain bullet in the 30-06, particularly for a spherical propellant as they typically have a harder time getting going. For a 150, H380 is the canister grade version of the spherical powder designed for the military for M2 Ball (150-grain 30-06 military load) and would be a better choice (if you have one). The bullet is light enough to go down the bore faster than the slower powder can make gas to fill in the expanding space behind it, so pressure has a hard time building up, especially if the powder ignites sluggishly. A magnum primer that is strong, like the Federal 215, can help get the powder burning quickly and may help with 760. A heavier bullet will burn the 760 better, though.

For the 150, if you aren't trying for maximum velocity, you might take a look at Vihtavuori N135. It is faster than is usually used in the 30-06, so it can't make maximum velocity loads for the '06 without creating too much pressure. But it is bulky and still fills the case fairly well when you use enough to reach the 150-grain 2700-2800 fps range. It is popular with some for Garand shooters for this reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDinFbg

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for that explanation unclenick. I do have a couple of pounds of H380, but have other plans for it. I bought the WW 760 for my 6mm and it didn't work out on the bullets I tried with it. I still I still have a little over 50 rounds of the 760 rounds and 40 of the 4895 and Varget loads that I haven't tried yet.

I did look at the Hodgdon on-line data along with my old Hornady #3 before deciding on the 54 grains. I have many thousands of the Herter's primers and thought this would be a good way to use up a couple of hundred. I still have over 600 of the Flat Nose bullets, so it will be nice to find something that works well. We'll see after I shoot the Varget and 4895 to see how that works.

I have some VV N130 and N135, but don't see any loads for that with a 150 gr. cup and core bullet in their data. Much of the load data I have shows quite a few powders slower than the 760, including 4350, 4831, Norma MRP and even WW 785 (spherical). Scary.

I'll quote from the Hornady # 3 Manual. You also need to remember that this manual was first published in 1980.

"Because of the extremely wide range of bullet weights available for this round, the versatility of the 30-06 is unmatched; it provides adequate power for all North American game with tolerable recoil. Not all powders listed gave optimum results throughout the range of bullets, mainly because the weights vary buy such a large amount (110 grain - 220 grain). The 30-06 has the largest variety of suitable powders of all the cartridges listed in the Hornady Manual, which illustrates the efficiency of the cartridge. Best results in our rifle were obtained using IMR 4064 and IMR 4831, - N202, IMR 4350, WW 785, and Norma MRP also gave very good results, and no powders listed gave less than acceptable results."

Seeing as I have so many of those free bullets, I see a lot of range time with my 06's. :D
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
37,700 Posts
You can bump up the 760 charge a little at a time, if you want to use it up. Might even find a more accurate load.... but it doesn't hurt the gun to shoot lower pressure loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
I use 4350 in most of my 06 loads for my 03a3 and Garands with the 150 gr and 165's & 168 's. But if you don't have any you gotta work with what you have on hand. Another that has worked well has been IMR 3031 in my rifle.
Is your 03A3 a 2 grove barrel? I've seen some impressive groups from some 03A3's .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Mike. I used up all the 760 loading 70 rounds of the 30-06. I guess I could pull the bullets and bump up the charges by 0.5 - 1 gr. which is still substantially below Max. Since it has been determined not to be detrimental, I will probably leave it alone as they did shoot pretty well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I use 4350 in most of my 06 loads for my 03a3 and Garands with the 150 gr and 165's & 168 's. But if you don't have any you gotta work with what you have on hand. Another that has worked well has been IMR 3031 in my rifle.
Is your 03A3 a 2 grove barrel? I've seen some impressive groups from some 03A3's .
I have some H4350, but it has worked well in other calibers. I was always under the impression that 4895 was the Gold Standard for 150-165 gr. bullets in the 06. I have about 5 pounds of IMR and H 4895 and it has always been pretty versatile for me. My favorite overall powder has always been H 4831.

When I was a kid, we had 4 O3-A3's. My Dad gifted our Pastor the only 2 groove we had (it was a sporter). Whenever he would outshoot my Dad with it, my Dad would explain that it was because he gave him the good one. :D I have a Sporter and a Military. My Brother got the other Military. All 4 groove.

You are right about using what is on hand. I was fairly lucky and had stocked up a bit on the more common powders before the Pandemic. Trying to find some others since has been a challenge to say the least. CFE 223 and Pro-Varmint comes to mind.

I used to be able to shoot off-hand groups as good or better than the one I shot off the bench last week...I am pretty sure that those days are long past.

Thanks for all the replies.
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
37,700 Posts
All's well that ends well. Varget has worked very well for me with the lighter bullets in the '06.
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
11,665 Posts
Or IMR 4064 or RX15.

I figured anyone with "gunsmith" in their handle would know all about backed out primers. 😁

RJ
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,902 Posts
I have some VV N130 and N135, but don't see any loads for that with a 150 gr. cup and core bullet in their data.
If you scroll down to the third and fourth 150-grain bullet tables at VV/Lapua's load data site, you find N135 for the 150-grain Lapua LockBase and for the 150-grain Lapua Mega as the first entry in both tables.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JWSmith1959

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
Start neck resizing only by backing off your sizing due. Let the brass grow to the chamber length. You apparently have a little longer chamber than most by a few thousands.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top