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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, obviously so much of rifle accuracy depends on the barrel, the trigger, bedding the barrel, and especially the shooter, however, I am in a discussion with someone who contends the 308 is a far more accurate rifle than a 30-06... And he sights some guy by the name of Bart Bobbitt who professes the best a 30-06 can do is 2 inch groups at 200 yards while a 308 can do 3/4 inch groups at 200 yards.

Now, while I am not an expert, I do have shooting experience and even shot very well at the USMC Parris Island range and it seems to me this Bobbitt comparison of the 30-06 to the 308 is just not factual. I mean it asserts the 308 is inherently almost THREE TIMES MORE ACCURATE than the 30-06 at a mere 200 yards.... Come on, this borders on crazy-speak. Does anyone else agree?
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Or sadly lacking in real-world experience. While I think the historical record shows that the .308 can edge the .30-06 (on average), the difference is going to be small.

Look up the Wimbledon cup (?) scores and suggest that for a starter, on accuracy education.

You can give the facts to the ignorant, but you can't make them think :D
 

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Yes, we all agree with you that the 308 is not remarkably more accurate than the 30-'06. Like Mike said, it may have a very slight edge, based on the case geometry, but there are so many other factors that influence accuracy that the case itself is almost never going to be a defining factor.

Tell your friend you respect his opinion, but the facts tell a different story.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys. Sometimes you are in conversation with someone and they say something and you feel like your head goes BONK inside. The thing is, I looked up the Bart Bobbitt fellow and he says the "facts" are on his side: check this madness out: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

I was reading it and I felt like my brain was melting into a pool of green gook.
 

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Thanks guys. Sometimes you are in conversation with someone and they say something and you feel like your head goes BONK inside. The thing is, I looked up the Bart Bobbitt fellow and he says the "facts" are on his side: check this madness out: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

I was reading it and I felt like my brain was melting into a pool of green gook.
I had read that article when I was going to get a .308 as well and it was over my head which is not to hard to do. Going along with your debate with your friend, I have to ask why did the military and LE snipers switch from the .30-06 to the .308. I know Hathcock was making his fame witht the .30-06, i'm just curious as to the factual information for the switch in calibers. I was assuming cost, but not sure of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
308 is less costly more efficient, just like the 223 was a nice light round and yet it doe snot mean it is that much MORE ACCURATE.... When reading Bobbitt he makes it sound like the 308 is FAR more accurate INHERENTLY and is FAR SUPERIOR in accuracy.... which is crazy speak...

Military chooses a round based on MANY factors and Influences, accuracy being one of MANY inputs or metrix.
 

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My father said to never argue with a Moron , they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ! There are not many people who shoot well enough to see a difference between the two . For me it's the recoil , I will shoot 100 Rounds of .308 better than I will 100 rounds of 30-06 . Guns built around the .308 are going to be a little stiffer than the ones built for the 30-06 .
 

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I will shoot 100 Rounds of .308 better than I will 100 rounds of 30-06 .
That's me in a nutshell...



Someone who has lots of national match experience could better respond but, as I understand it, the .308 took over the dominance from the 30-06 and now the .223/5.56mm is starting to take over the .308 at Camp Perry.

In the bolt action rifles I've owned that's been my experience as well; I shoot .308 rifles a little better than 30-06 and shoot the .223 better than both. I'm talking about doing it consistently with 5-shot groups. But, I would never claim that one is "3 times" more accurate than the other- unless I was comparing a .308 match type rifle against a 30-06 beater rifle- which would be silly.
 

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If you have two rifles set up exactly the same, one in -06 the other in 308, and you can honestly tell the difference over several hundred rounds then my hats off to you....dont think my heads going to get cold anytime soon though.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Whew, so gald to get so many seasoned and reasonable and funny replies. Where does this Bobbit get web space to pontific0ate that the 308 is 3X more accurate than the 30-06????
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I guess what troubles me is when you Google "accuracuy of 30-06 compared to 308" it is Babbits crazy article that comes up first!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Well you can put any crazy stuff on the web that you want. Just pony up a few bucks for hosting and you, too, can make your own site about how the moon is really made of green pickles, not cheese :rolleyes:

:D

Generally speaking, the less powder burnt, the less recoil, and shorter the powder column... the easier it is to attain accuracy. But all of those improvements come a fraction of a degree at a time.

Military shooters use what's issued. That one is pretty easy to answer!
 

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This is great I am guessing the human factor is the difference because the 30-06 is just too much gun for them. If all things were equal in both guns and loads the results would be the same if a mechanical shooter were used.
 

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The "Human Factor" is very much a reality but not one of toughness, but mass.

When you increase recoil- the way the shooter holds his/her firearm, and the consistency of their hold, becomes ever more important. To shoot small groups consistently, with any firearm, one must make the resistance to recoil a constant (or as close to a constant as humanly possible). If the firearm recoils differently each time the bullets path will be effected.

This is why even .22 rimfire benchrest shooters end up with surprisingly heavy rifles and why there are weight limits in many competitions.
 

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I was joking on the toughness. But preceived pain does tend to cause consistancy problems. I have shot 22 competitions in my youth with gun club rifles and peep sights. What a great way to lean shooting techniques. 99 out of 100 was my best score. You are right.
 

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I've owned both .308 & .30-06's and of the two I like the .308 much better. The .308's recoil is very mild when compared with the .30-06.
 

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Both cartridges are very capable of easily obtaining sub moa accuracy. They both have been used successfully to compete in bench rest competitions. So they are both very capable of achieving very good accuracy. However, the 308 has been used significantly more frequently in benchrest competions and sniper applications. I believe the little round is thought to be superior to the 06 based upon; it burns powder more efficiently and consistanly, and is more user friendly and cost efficient to load. I have used both cartridges significantly and have had better success achieving sub moa accuracy with the 308. However, I found one left handed Reminton Model 700 in 30-06 that would consistantly print moa accuracy at 200 yards. So I guess it all boils down to which gun/load your using. I personally have found that the 308 Winchester has been on the average more inheritantly accurate and user friendly than the 30-06 Springfield. I think if one was to visit a benchrest competition and queried the participants you fully agree.:)
 

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Gents,

I have several rifles in both calibers, and have not found the accuracy to difference to be that great between them. I don't have an opinion on Mr. Babbit's notion, reckon his experience naturally leads him to this claim, and he is entitled to his opinion. God Bless America.

My blush is that I tend to agree on the case geometry aspect, and have found my 308s shoot much better if I go to the fastest powder that still rests upon the base of the bullet. I think this generates consistantcy, and while my 06s are really not behind in the accuracy department, I have found more tempermental and generally less consistant.

Higher pressure loads I have found to be more accuratte, and have noticed that Sierra seems to prefer quicker powder charges as well, and the good people at Sierra are wonderful human beings that know their stuff about accuracy. 3031 and its bunch work really well in the 308, and aren't suitable for use in the 06.

Another reason that this opinion might be manifest is the type of rifles that the two are loaded for. The M24 rifle, Varmint Spec, SPSs, Laredo, coyotes, the Savage offerings- any of these built in 06?

There are also once and awhile, odd and crazy things that just dont make a bit of sense, but are the truth in one's own little portion of he world. For example, my Model 7, 18.5" Remington 308 will shoot a 200 grain Speer faster - yes faster- and much more accurately than my model 22" Rem 700 30-06. Doesn't make a bit of sense to me, and likely only happens here and between my two guns, loads, etc. Reckon it would be irresponsible for me to claim that this happens everywhere based upon my experiences, right?

180 Sierra Game King 56.0 grains of IMR 4350, is my go to load for the 06, and it has been well under sub moa in 3 different rifles. It will make a man a beleiver in the accuracy potential of his 06s.

Hope you fellows are in good shape.

Steve
 
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