I know I'm going to sound ignorant (I am), but I have always used a 30-30 Winchester for close range deer hunting in the eastern US woods. (here is the ignorant part). Could I ever trust a 30-30 for taking anything larger? such as a black bear? Or is it solely a short range deer gun?
30-30 knockdown
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A friend has shot some wild pigs with one, and they are definitely tougher than a deer. In years past it was used up through elk and moose but today's hunters would turn up their noses at such an application.
Black bear... sounds reasonable to me.
Black bear... sounds reasonable to me.
BT,
I have taken taken 3 Northern Alberta black bears over the years with my .30-30. All were from a tree stand over bait. I use Nosler 170gr Partition bullets at 2175fps (chrono). I have since re-chambered this to a .30-30 Ackley Improved for something to do. I look forward to using this for spring bear again this year. The .30-30 and its big brother, Ackley, have more than enough power for black bear at the ranges I have hunted them.
I have taken taken 3 Northern Alberta black bears over the years with my .30-30. All were from a tree stand over bait. I use Nosler 170gr Partition bullets at 2175fps (chrono). I have since re-chambered this to a .30-30 Ackley Improved for something to do. I look forward to using this for spring bear again this year. The .30-30 and its big brother, Ackley, have more than enough power for black bear at the ranges I have hunted them.
Hi BT,
My only experience with the 30wcf on game has been with whitetails. All were one shot kills with no "running for miles on-end" deer. Here in Vermont the 30-30 is commonly used on black bear with quick kills at shorter "woods" ranges. Most bears taken here are under 250Ibs "dressed". I almost always carry a 30-30 or .32 spcl during our deer season and do not feel undergunned.
Take it easy,
Scott in Vermont
My only experience with the 30wcf on game has been with whitetails. All were one shot kills with no "running for miles on-end" deer. Here in Vermont the 30-30 is commonly used on black bear with quick kills at shorter "woods" ranges. Most bears taken here are under 250Ibs "dressed". I almost always carry a 30-30 or .32 spcl during our deer season and do not feel undergunned.
Take it easy,
Scott in Vermont
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BT,
Fear not, the grand ole' gal is more than up to the task. Here in Pennsylvania it is well used for bear and we get some pretty big ones. My good friend John Kort can better elaborate on the .30 WCF than I and hope he will see your post to add to the discussion.
Fear not, the grand ole' gal is more than up to the task. Here in Pennsylvania it is well used for bear and we get some pretty big ones. My good friend John Kort can better elaborate on the .30 WCF than I and hope he will see your post to add to the discussion.
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Bill, you might be able to verify this, but I seem to remember about 10 years (?) ago the heaviest black bear ever weighed in PA was shot with a 30-30. It seems to me the fellow wasn't even hunting, he was working on a tractor or something? I wish I could remember the particulars! IDShooter
The 30-30 has a very bad reputation in my area for deer. A lot of my friends have used the rounds poor performance to justify a more powerful round in something other than a lever action. They talk about the deer they lost or missed because of the round when I suspect it was simply when they had the little gun they were young and inexperienced.
I have not shot a lot of deer with a rifle. I mostly hunt with a stick and a string, but the past couple years I have killed several deer with the rifle and this year I had my share of bad hits, lost deer and doubts about equipment because of it. I was using an 30.06 Rem Pump that shoots little tiny groups at 100 yds with a 165 gr bullet. I would be an idiot to blame the round, we all know the problem is with the shooter as I suspect it is with the old 30-30 folks who shoot a 7mm Rem mag now. Wonder if the new guns have helped or they are just better shooter under pressure? I think the latter.
I have not shot a lot of deer with a rifle. I mostly hunt with a stick and a string, but the past couple years I have killed several deer with the rifle and this year I had my share of bad hits, lost deer and doubts about equipment because of it. I was using an 30.06 Rem Pump that shoots little tiny groups at 100 yds with a 165 gr bullet. I would be an idiot to blame the round, we all know the problem is with the shooter as I suspect it is with the old 30-30 folks who shoot a 7mm Rem mag now. Wonder if the new guns have helped or they are just better shooter under pressure? I think the latter.
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Friends All....We all know the plus and minus of the .30-30 Win, but I will have to say the cartridge has suffered at times due to poor design ammo from the factories.....either too soft or too hard. There was a period that WW got their Silvertip jacket too hard and there where a lot of deer trailed up with dogs. The overall best bullet, factory wise, over the years has been Remingtons Corelokt (sp?) and the best handload bullet I ever used was the 190 gr roundnose Silvertip that was intended for the .303 Savage. I would "pick" these bullets up at the factory and load them in .30-30 cases. The man is correct...the .30-30 Ackley Imp is a great cartridge!
Best Regards, James
Best Regards, James
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James makes an excellent point regarding bullet choices, as is so often the case with my good friend from Florida. I too really like the Remington Core-Lokt designs for several cartridges, .30-30 and .303 British being the most used. They are inexpensive via mail order or Internet vendors, but give excellent terminal performance that surpasses some more expensive projectiles.
In general I would suggest for .30-30 use a bullet with a good deal of exposed lead at the tip. Designs with the jacket almost or fully to the end of the bullet should be avoided with this cartridge. With its relatively low velocity the .30 WCF can't overcome a great deal of resistence to expansion. If the jacket doesn't fracture easily, expansion and subsequent terminal effect will be substantially reduced.
In general I would suggest for .30-30 use a bullet with a good deal of exposed lead at the tip. Designs with the jacket almost or fully to the end of the bullet should be avoided with this cartridge. With its relatively low velocity the .30 WCF can't overcome a great deal of resistence to expansion. If the jacket doesn't fracture easily, expansion and subsequent terminal effect will be substantially reduced.
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The 303 British uses anywheres from the .310-.314 depending on firearm.
<!--EDIT|Alex Stanton|Feb. 09 2002,16:43-->
<!--EDIT|Alex Stanton|Feb. 09 2002,16:43-->
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Hi, Chief:
Sierra and Speer .303 bullets go .311" and Hornadys go .312". Just one thing, watch for tight necks. This isn't likely a problem in a military rifle, since chambers are usualy oversized, but it could happen. Be sure a .303 bullet is a loose fit in a case fired in your rifle before resizing.
Note to newbies: Chief's rifle should have a .308" bore, but it's oversized, so he wants to try a bullet that's .003 oversized, or .311". That's fine, IF his chamber neck is loose enough. BUT, if his rifle has only .003" clearance between the chamber and cartridge neck with a .308" loaded, and he loads a .311" bullet, clearance is zero. If this cartridge is fired, the case neck can't expand and release the bullet properly, and the pressure goes up, maybe way up. He might have to reduce the diameter of his case necks with a case neck trimmer.
Bye
Jack
Sierra and Speer .303 bullets go .311" and Hornadys go .312". Just one thing, watch for tight necks. This isn't likely a problem in a military rifle, since chambers are usualy oversized, but it could happen. Be sure a .303 bullet is a loose fit in a case fired in your rifle before resizing.
Note to newbies: Chief's rifle should have a .308" bore, but it's oversized, so he wants to try a bullet that's .003 oversized, or .311". That's fine, IF his chamber neck is loose enough. BUT, if his rifle has only .003" clearance between the chamber and cartridge neck with a .308" loaded, and he loads a .311" bullet, clearance is zero. If this cartridge is fired, the case neck can't expand and release the bullet properly, and the pressure goes up, maybe way up. He might have to reduce the diameter of his case necks with a case neck trimmer.
Bye
Jack
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Chief,
Just to be on the safe side I suggest slugging your M-N with lead before settling on an oversized (for the nominal bore dimension) bullet. Jack made a good point about pressure spikes. Depending on the manufacture of your M-N you may or may not have a bunch of leeway in action strength. Finnish Sakos are best, early WWII-era Russian may be questionable.
Just to be on the safe side I suggest slugging your M-N with lead before settling on an oversized (for the nominal bore dimension) bullet. Jack made a good point about pressure spikes. Depending on the manufacture of your M-N you may or may not have a bunch of leeway in action strength. Finnish Sakos are best, early WWII-era Russian may be questionable.
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Hi, Chief:
I assumed that you had slugged your bore, and perhaps I shouldn't have.
Anybody buying a used benchrest or custom varmint rig must check for a tight necked chamber. Don't guess, ask the seller or the gunsmith. If that's not possible, get your gunsmith to measure it or slug the throat by Marshall's method.
Assume that 100% of custom guns chambered for the 6mm PPC have necks that are too tight for Sako factory ammo until proven otherwise.
Bye
Jack
<!--EDIT|Jack Monteith|Feb. 10 2002,10:18-->
I assumed that you had slugged your bore, and perhaps I shouldn't have.
Anybody buying a used benchrest or custom varmint rig must check for a tight necked chamber. Don't guess, ask the seller or the gunsmith. If that's not possible, get your gunsmith to measure it or slug the throat by Marshall's method.
Assume that 100% of custom guns chambered for the 6mm PPC have necks that are too tight for Sako factory ammo until proven otherwise.
Bye
Jack
<!--EDIT|Jack Monteith|Feb. 10 2002,10:18-->
BT
Getting back to your original query:
There are no dumb,ignorant or stupid questions.
No one Knows it all. Those of us who've been around the block had to ask questions .The wise ones still do.
Now ,I'll give you my advice gathered from 65 years of hob-knobbing around the Rocky Mts.since I was 10 years old.
The first deer I shot was with 45-70 trapdoor.Itwas murder at both ends. I got a 30-30 shortly after that and I shot every thing you could shoot with it. Coyotes, deer ,elk bears etc..IN 1948 or 49 I got a Spring field from the DCM. I contiued to shoot every thing I could . The only differance was I dould shoot accurately wth the 30-06 about 200-250 yards instead of 150 yards with the 30-30.
As a guide in alska told me in the 1950's when I asked about his 30-40 Krag killing big bad bears " You chooot dem in da boiler vorks and dey vill die"
Use your faithful 3o-30 and goodluck
caster
Getting back to your original query:
There are no dumb,ignorant or stupid questions.
No one Knows it all. Those of us who've been around the block had to ask questions .The wise ones still do.
Now ,I'll give you my advice gathered from 65 years of hob-knobbing around the Rocky Mts.since I was 10 years old.
The first deer I shot was with 45-70 trapdoor.Itwas murder at both ends. I got a 30-30 shortly after that and I shot every thing you could shoot with it. Coyotes, deer ,elk bears etc..IN 1948 or 49 I got a Spring field from the DCM. I contiued to shoot every thing I could . The only differance was I dould shoot accurately wth the 30-06 about 200-250 yards instead of 150 yards with the 30-30.
As a guide in alska told me in the 1950's when I asked about his 30-40 Krag killing big bad bears " You chooot dem in da boiler vorks and dey vill die"
Use your faithful 3o-30 and goodluck
caster
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