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i'm not a big collector of anything. i was cleaning brass, i noticed a 30-40 krag that wasn't quite right. i talked to my dad and a few others who said this piece of brass might be worth something. not that i'm going to do anything other than shoot it, i rather doubt its worth anything, but i'll ask.

its a 30-40 krag piece of brass with the words: super speed 30 army

is it worth anything? or should i shoot it again, and again and.....:)
 

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It's just Winchester commercial .30-40 from around the 40's through the 60's. Super speed was Winchesters catch phrase for everything in those days.

Google would probably have saved you the post.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks leatherneck. i found super speed 30-40 krag, but i had a hard time finding army.
 

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Yes, the cartridge we call "30-40 Krag" was originally called the ".30 Army", or ".30 U.S." sometimes with out the periods or decimal point. The cartridge was revolutionary as it was a small bore compared to the 45-70 it replaced. It was first adopted by the Army, so that is why it got the 'army' part in its name, even the commercial non-military cartridges were called that. I have Remington and Winchester rounds with the headstamp '30 ARMY'. great round.
 

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Yea

It's just Winchester commercial .30-40 from around the 40's through the 60's. Super speed was Winchesters catch phrase for everything in those days.

Google would probably have saved you the post.
Yeah but if he used google I wouldn't have learned something new:)
Thanks for posting OP I did find it interesting. Some of us don't have 30-40 krags and never heard of it.
 

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I'd set that shell on the shelf and use it for conversation, it's not worth much more than that?, I have three 30-03 shells that I gave a $1 each for when I was trying to figure out what my brothers Winchester 1895 "30 Gov" (serial dates it to 1905) was exactly.
 

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Yes, the cartridge we call "30-40 Krag" was originally called the ".30 Army", or ".30 U.S." sometimes with out the periods or decimal point. The cartridge was revolutionary as it was a small bore compared to the 45-70 it replaced. It was first adopted by the Army, so that is why it got the 'army' part in its name, even the commercial non-military cartridges were called that. I have Remington and Winchester rounds with the headstamp '30 ARMY'. great round.
Parent cartridge of the .444 Marlin, no slouch in it's own right....
 

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Yes, the cartridge we call "30-40 Krag" was originally called the ".30 Army", or ".30 U.S." sometimes with out the periods or decimal point. The cartridge was revolutionary as it was a small bore compared to the 45-70 it replaced. It was first adopted by the Army, so that is why it got the 'army' part in its name, even the commercial non-military cartridges were called that. I have Remington and Winchester rounds with the headstamp '30 ARMY'. great round.
Also wasn't the .30 US the 1st US Military cartridge loaded with smokeless powder?
 

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correct gbro.

I load and hunt with a 30-40. great round. Seems if US army would have learned anything from the Spanish war, it would have been...get rid of 200+ grain round nose bullets....get 130-140 gr 30 cal pointer bullets in the 30-40. And then cut the Krag barrels to 22 inches. add a rear peep sight.

then no need for the '06 nor that blasted 1903 with its weight, ladder sight, and fixed box magazine.
 

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Then there was 'Super X' and Peters, the case head for commercial cases included 30 gov 1903.

F. Guffey

Also wasn't the .30 US the 1st US Military cartridge loaded with smokeless powder?
The first cartridge had to be the 30/30. Then there was Browning, he would not allow the 30/30 to go into production until the Model 94 could handle smokeless powder. Springfield? Did not have a clue, They built the 30/40 with one locking lug, then decided it did not need two locking lugs.

F. Guffey
 

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[QUOTI don't think the "30 gov 1903" is a krag 30-40.E]QUOTE] You think? I know, my cases do not have rims, my cases will not chamber in the 30/40, I do have old reloading manuals that list the 30/03 and the 30/06. Then there is the barrel with the chamber stamped on the side of the barrel with something ahead of that that starts with Winchester something etc.. Then there is the 03 and the 03A3 and Peters was before R-P then there was beore that? Rem-UMC. I am the fan of all these different head stamps, it helps when sorting cases after tumbling.

F. Guffey
 

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The 30-40 cartridge headstamps with various added descriptions, such as Army, Government, USG, etc were all commercial versions. The military cartridge was called the Cal 30 Ball.

The first US Militray cartridge loaded with smokeless powder was the 45-70-500.
 

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The 30-40 cartridge headstamps with various added descriptions, such as Army, Government, USG, etc were all commercial versions. The military cartridge was called the Cal 30 Ball.

The first US Militray cartridge loaded with smokeless powder was the 45-70-500.
Had to be for use in Gatling Guns!
 

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The Gatling gun dates to the 1860s and was used in 45 caliber during the Indian Wars (black powder).

My mistake. The Cal 30 (30-40) was the first US military ammunition loaded with smokeless powder. The first smokeless 45-70-500 ammunition was manufactured by Frankford Arsenal in 1898.
 

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OK, History lesson:
1890, 1891, U.S. Army tests rifles that were offered under Request for Proposals. The rifles needed to shoot a smokeless round the Army had been working on. Danish Krag-Jorgensen rifle was selected. Selection was protested. (Over lawyered even back then!) Courts found in favor of the Army.
Side note: a rifle from an unknown inventor named Savage fared well enough to convince investors to invest in his startup.
1892, the Army introduced the new "Krag-Jorgensen" rifle and its smokeless cartridge. The cartridge has subsequently been given the names above. We mostly call it the ".30-40 Krag" today.
1894, Winchester introduced a new rifle intended for smokeless but had no smokeless ammo yet available.
1895, Savage introduced his model 1895 rifle and its brand-new smokeless cartridge, the .303 Savage.
Nearly concurrently, Winchester introduced the brand-new smokeless 30-30 for its 1894 rifles.
Both .303 Savage and .30-30 Winchester are like two peas in a pod. Industrial espionage? People still debate whether Savage or Winchester introduced their new smokeless cartridge first.
1898, the U.S.A. fought the Spanish-American War. Lt. Col. "Teddy" Roosevelt testified to a Congressional Committee that the Krag proved inferior to the Spanish Mausers. Congress recommends the Army procure a superior rifle.
1900, Teddy Roosevelt was elected Vice President of the U.S.
1901, Teddy Roosevelt succeeded to the office of President of the U.S.
1903, the Army introduced the new rifle they'd been ordered to develop, the "'03 Springfield". Mauser sues the U.S. Army for patent infringement.
The German Ambassador is treated to President Roosevelt and his Secretary of War sparring with bayonets in the Oval Office over a disagreement whether the new rod bayonet was good enough. Roosevelt was victorious by snapping the Springfield rod bayonet with a bayonet-equipped Krag. The Springfield subsequently got a proper bayonet.
1904, 1905, Mauser startled the military world by replacing the long, round-nosed bullet by a lighter, pointed, "spitzer" bullet driven to unheard-of speeds.
1906, the U.S. Army introduced a modified cartridge for the '03 rifle, one that also featured a lighter, pointed, "spitzer" bullet driven to high velocity.
To differentiate the two cartridges, they became known as the ".30-03" and the ".30-06".
Because the Army was accustomed to seating the bullet base even with the bottom of the neck and this wouldn't work because the ogive of the new bullet would be too deep into the neck to crimp, they redesigned the chamber with a shorter neck and throat. The old '03 chamber would work just fine with the new ammo but they felt the need to change them anyway. So, all the new Springfield rifles went back to the factory to have the last thread cut off and the new chamber reamed.
 

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To differentiate the two cartridges, they became known as the ".30-03" and the ".30-06".. . .Because the Army was accustomed to seating the bullet base even with the bottom of the neck and this wouldn't work because the ogive of the new bullet would be too deep into the neck to crimp, they redesigned the chamber with a shorter neck and throat.
Actually the cartridges were designated the Cal .30 Model of 1903 and Cal .30 Model of 1906. 30-03 and 30-06 were the commercial designations.

The first Cal .30 Model of 1906 cartridges were not crimped. The cannelured bullet and crimp were not adopted until early 1909. The case neck was shortened simply because it was not needed with the 150 grain pointed bullet.
 
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