Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Seems people like this caliber. What's so exciting about it? I see a short shell offering a low velocity, and with precious little shoulder upon which to headspace. Has anybody ever done a .277 Blackout? A .264 Blackout? A .257 Blackout? You'd get more velocity and get some shoulder area upon which the case can perch in the chamber. And why the name Blackout? Is there any special meaning regarding the name?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
.277 wolverine is a 5.56 cut back (not as much as the .300blk) and necked up to .277. It's a neat little cartridge but I still prefer the 6.8spc. 6.8 offers more case capacity and is easier to find than .277 wolverine (a popular wildcat).

The original name was ".300 whisper". The cartridge is fun to shoot subsonic through a sound suppressor and it still cycles in the AR15 in such a configuration. Subsonic loadings are similar to a .40s&w or .45auto in performance from a Really Short Barrel. The rifle does only fair in its supersonic loadings. It has identical energy to a 5.56 while slinging a slower .30 cal bullet downrange.

It's a niche cartridge and can be fun to reload or shoot suppressed if you do both. I think a lot of people are buying it because it's the "tacticool fad" as there are better cartridges to give the AR15 more power. .300 blackout is only really good for suppressor shooting compared to its competition. That's 6.8 SPC, 7.62WT, .277 wolverine, 5.56 NATO, or 6.5grendel. None suppress near as well and easily but all blow it out of the water in every other aspect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
I'll add again that it is a very fun cartridge to shoot suppressed. Your trigger reset is louder than the gunshot using subsonic ammo. But... you get the same experience shooting a 9mm or .45 Auto pistol cartridge rifle suppressed and it's much much much cheaper. Or a subsonic .22 LR for that matter.

And for its supersonic abilities as you pointed out. It's a 5.56 case chopped down with a bigger bullet stuffed in it. It has little case capacity and is blown out of the water by almost every other modern intermediate rifle cartridge.

http://www.maddogweapons.com/277-wolverine.html

Check this out if your interested in an oddball AR cartridge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
The 300 Whisper was designed to give more power in a suppressed rifle than the 9mm suppressed SMG that was being used by the military at the time.

The 240 gr SBT was a bit more powerful than the 9mm 147 gr bullet at the same velocity. It has a better trajectory. The range was also increased as the SBT keeps its power longer. Accuracy is also better.

The hunting supersonic loads are about like the 7.62x39. Bullets made specifically for the 300 Whisper/Blackout reportedly give good results on deer at short ranges.

For the reloader, almost all 30 cal bullets can be used, including cast. Powder charges are much less than larger 30 cal cartridges and therefore cheaper.

And it all fits in an AR-15. Just get a new upper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,748 Posts
I personally don't know the reason why people would buy one unless they are just looking for something different.


I own a 6.8spc and a 5.56 AR-15 and they are MUCH more capable in the fields as hunting cartridges. My 6.8spc has killed deer at ranges the 300 is not capable of.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Just get a new upper.
I'm never one to get myself a .300 Blackout. I'm down to five guns now from over two dozen, and seem to have lost the interest and desire to fool around with them anymore. The thought of sitting down to load several hundred .223 rounds just turns me off. There was a time not too many years ago, I'd do a hundred in ninety minutes (cases were already sized and primed). I enjoyed doing it. Now, it's something that's at the bottom of my "Want to do List." Gearing-up to load another caliber I'll rarely ever shoot is not in the cards...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,269 Posts
If I just had to have a 30-caliber cartridge that would shoot from an AR15 platform, it would be the 30 Remington AR. The 300 Whisper/Blackout/AAC is a curiosity with little in the way of practical purpose. I looked into the round 25 years ago, fired from a Contender. Didn't interest me then and the idea of spending $1,000 or more on one is even less appealing, today.

I couldn't care less about shooting suppressed and don't waste time pretending I'm a sniper for the CIA. If a gun won't HUNT, I'm not all that interested in it. Pressing a 300 Blackout into service as a hunting cartridge is trying to find utility in something that is otherwise useless. A Model 94 in 30/30 is measurably more effective, particularly with the modern Leverevolution rounds.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The 300 Whisper/Blackout/AAC is a curiosity with little in the way of practical purpose.
My problem with it is that the shoulder is so tiny the machining of the chamber has to be so spot-on, else we will get headspacing problems. So it's an assassin's weapon, it's said. Wouldn't it work equally well if there was more shoulder and a little less bullet, like in the .277 Wolverine? Or in a cartridge having a .264" or .257" bullet? Was the bullet chosen to deliver more of a punch to accomplish the job at a lower velocity? Maybe, but that lower velocity means the shooter must be closer to the target lest there be too much drop, which can lead to a miss. I'm no sniper but I'd guess if a sniper misses the mark, he's now got a very large problem in the soldiers who will come after him with a certain level of vengeance. A smaller bullet allows for greater stand-off, which creates a larger window to escape after the shot. Carlos Hathcock never used a silencer. At least not that I know. When he fired, he knew right away he'd have a platoon of soldiers out looking for him as soon as the sound was heard at the target's location...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trent12

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
.300blk is a decent cartridge for medium game like Texas feral hogs and any deer species out to about 150 yards. I imagine hog hunting with a suppressed rifle it may work okay. But the 6.8spc or 6.5grendel will suppress just as well as supersonic .300blk and hit much harder.

I think a lot of guys read ".300" and buy it because they can say they have a ".300" cal AR15. But they don't realize they picked up a pea shooter rifle almost identical to a rock thrower. Supersonic .300blk offers little to no increase in energy over the 5.56, It drops like a rock, it's expensive, and it's just a "tacticool" fad. It will wash out eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
My problem with it is that the shoulder is so tiny the machining of the chamber has to be so spot-on, else we will get headspacing problems. So it's an assassin's weapon, it's said. Wouldn't it work equally well if there was more shoulder and a little less bullet, like in the .277 Wolverine? Or in a cartridge having a .264" or .257" bullet? Was the bullet chosen to deliver more of a punch to accomplish the job at a lower velocity? Maybe, but that lower velocity means the shooter must be closer to the target lest there be too much drop, which can lead to a miss. I'm no sniper but I'd guess if a sniper misses the mark, he's now got a very large problem in the soldiers who will come after him with a certain level of vengeance. A smaller bullet allows for greater stand-off, which creates a larger window to escape after the shot. Carlos Hathcock never used a silencer. At least not that I know. When he fired, he knew right away he'd have a platoon of soldiers out looking for him as soon as the sound was heard at the target's location...
When a sniper fires using a suppressor, the suppressor masks the location of the gunshot somewhat. What the bad guys will hear is a sonic crack flying through the air. Using a suppressor they can generally hide their location somewhat and allow them a few extra shots before the guys on the receiving end catch on and figure out where he is at. This is because the sonic crack from the bullet moves with the bullet and kind of radiates all around through the air.

Subsonic ammo is about like shooting a .22lr. You won't be able to make predictable accurate shots out to any realistic range because it drops like a rock. Subsonic ammo is the left side argument for why suppressors should remain illegal because they make it really quiet. But a subsonic .308 Winchester is the same as a .40 S&W pistol. Same as a subsonic 5.56 is to a .22LR rimfire... but the common citizen doesn't even understand what "subsonic" or "supersonic" means.

But a subsonic bullet would not give away a snipers location as the trigger reset on his rifle would be louder than the gunshot. But he would probably have to be so close they could easily spot him or even hear his gun cycling. And shot placement would be very important as it would not have anywhere near enough juice to go through even soft body armor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Wouldn't it work equally well if there was more shoulder and a little less bullet, like in the .277 Wolverine? Or in a cartridge having a .264" or .257" bullet? Was the bullet chosen to deliver more of a punch to accomplish the job at a lower velocity? Maybe, but that lower velocity means the shooter must be closer to the target lest there be too much drop, which can lead to a miss
If a round is being fired subsonic, the only way to get the energy up is use heavier bullets. That's an advantage of a 30 cal over a 25 cal. I don't know how many "whisper" rounds JD Jones has created in total but I know they've at least gone up to 50 caliber. They're definitely niche rounds but cool for what they're intended.

I haven't fooled with a 300 whisper/blackout too much but an 8 twist 30-20 (slightly less power than a 300 blk) in a Contender pistol is pretty fun to play with. Nosler has a new subsonic hunting bullet I'd like play with this year Ballistic Tip Hunting 30 Caliber 220 Grain RN Bullet (50ct)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Carlos Hathcock never used a silencer.
I found photographs that indicate he might have used a suppressor. Let's assume he did. He'd have to go through the whole schmeer to figger-out where the bullet was going to go. If anybody could, it was certainly him...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Just to add a different perspective to the discussion: I bought one, mostly for fun, and I've liked it more than I expected. I'd already owned a couple MSR's, so I was comfortable with the platform, and already had a good supply of .223 brass, .30 cal bullets and suitable powder. The cartridge is efficient- 2,100 fps with a 125 gr. bullet from 17 or 18 gr. of powder, and very little recoil. The round looks like a toy, but performs way out of proportion to its size. And the shoulder is sufficient - if it weren't, the millions of rounds slammed into chambers would have made it evident by now. My gun (a CMMG upper) turned out to be very accurate. So, an accurate cartridge in a gun that is handy, compact, easy to shoot, and accurate enough to take deer or hogs out to about 150 yds., and you have super-quick follow-up shot if you need it. What's not to like? Sure, I'll carry my longer/heavier/more powerful guns when I need to, but the 300BLK works well in most of the places I hunt, and is just a bunch of fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
It will wash out eventually.
I agree, but for different reasons. We shooters are very unwelcoming to new ideas. It will die out because John Browning had nothing to do with its development. It will die out because Elmer Keith didn't advocate for it. It will die out because it's not old. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
Another, somewhat less important factor I've found with mine is that it is also quieter. Even shooting the supersonic rounds, there's much less pressure left over at the end of the barrel. Ergo, less damage to a hunter's ears.
Yeah, it's because there is not a lot of powder in the case so it all burns up well inside the barrel. The 5.56/.223 doesn't do that quite so well in the little 14"-16" barrels everyone has on their AR15's.

I'll give the .300 blackout points there. It is a very efficient cartridge for shorter barreled rifles. I think all the powder is supposedly burnt around the 8"-10" mark or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
It does have less muzzle blast than the .223, and doesn't seem to stretch and beat up the brass as much. I do wish they had optimized it for supersonic. I suppose that to make the OAL accommodate the 220 gr. sub-sonics, they had to shorten the case. I'm guessing it could be .10 - .15" longer if it were configured for super-sonic only, and you could probably get another 100 fps out of a 125 or 130 gr.,
I don't think it will die out - it's just too versatile, and there are so many M4's out there that only need a fatter bullet to become a harder-hitting short-to-medium range gun for hunting. It's a viable alternative to the .243, .30-30 or lightly loaded .308W as a hunting rifle for those of small stature or who are recoil-sensitive.
Yes, when you first look at it, the cartridge looks silly. When you shoot it and reload it, it starts to make sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
It does have less muzzle blast than the .223, and doesn't seem to stretch and beat up the brass as much. I do wish they had optimized it for supersonic. I suppose that to make the OAL accommodate the 220 gr. sub-sonics, they had to shorten the case. I'm guessing it could be .10 - .15" longer if it were configured for super-sonic only, and you could probably get another 100 fps out of a 125 or 130 gr.,
I don't think it will die out - it's just too versatile, and there are so many M4's out there that only need a fatter bullet to become a harder-hitting short-to-medium range gun for hunting. It's a viable alternative to the .243, .30-30 or lightly loaded .308W as a hunting rifle for those of small stature or who are recoil-sensitive.
Yes, when you first look at it, the cartridge looks silly. When you shoot it and reload it, it starts to make sense.
Look at the 7.62 WT from Wilson combat... I think it may be the exact cartridge you are looking for/ talking about. Or you could look at a 6.8 spc which is my favorite, but it does have more proprietary parts.... :)

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/7-62x40-wt-rifles/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Yeah, it's because there is not a lot of powder in the case so it all burns up well inside the barrel. The 5.56/.223 doesn't do that quite so well in the little 14"-16" barrels everyone has on their AR15's.

I'll give the .300 blackout points there. It is a very efficient cartridge for shorter barreled rifles. I think all the powder is supposedly burnt around the 8"-10" mark or so.
Going by load data, it also predominantly uses pistol powders (which burn fast).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
I found photographs that indicate he might have used a suppressor. Let's assume he did. He'd have to go through the whole schmeer to figger-out where the bullet was going to go. If anybody could, it was certainly him...
I don't remember him talking about it in his book, so he probably didn't do it much. Of course, he probably didnt mind getting really close if he needed to...
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top