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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i just recently purchased a marlin xL7 in 308.My father and i are starting to get more into long range shooting.I know that there are more suitable calibers out there, but im looking for some info on the 308 and its long range performance on paper and wild game such as white tail deer.
 

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308....

I have had excellent results with Hornady 150 grain SSTs. 3 deer down with them this year. Closest was 30 yards and the farthest was 282 yards. Complete pass thru on all three. Groups are 3/4 to 1/2 MOA.
 

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Here are a couple of things I have done with the lowly .308W. With an M1A I have shot 1000 yard matches and did pretty good. With my Rem Varmint in the silly little .308 I fired 23 10s and Xs in a row at the 500 yard target.

Max on deer IF your rifle groups well, IF you can make the shot, IF you have a good load, I would say 300 yards.

Good projectiles are the Nozler 150 and 165 Ballistic Tips.

Others will have their experiences to share I am sure.
 

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The 308 is capable of killing deer out to 400-500yds if YOU and the RIFLE are capable. I also own a XS-7 in 308 and like it very much. I shortened the barrel to 18.25" and would not feel undergunned out to 300+ yds with it.

For serious long range target work, you may need a heavier gun. The "X" guns are light and trim which are 2 traits not really suited to LONG range target shooting.
 

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yep but for the lack of availability id be a 308 man.. they didn t have one an a savage 110 in 30 06,,followed me home..i kinda thought id settled instead of gettin what i wanted..
that was until the savage sighted in with 4 shots at the hundred..
then it made me, of all people ,,able to shoot with the best at that distance for a while.. now thats history..im just not able to match the guns accurracy anymore..
if id have gotten a good 308 that day in savage ,,the story would probably be the same..good caliber..slim:)
 

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Lee,

The .308 is top-shelf for both long-range shooting fun and for hunting deer of any kind. Some would argue it is among the top-5 cartridges that could be called ideal for both disciplines. Particularly if you handload, rounds can be tailored to target practice or for hunting deer under just about any conditions, from very thick, heavy cover, to wide-open plains and fields.

As Bandit suggested, the light weight and contour of the XS-7 is not really intended for the highest levels of competition shooting, but it is an excellent choice for hunting or long-range practice. If you provide more specific questions about what the round is capable of, I'm sure there are folks here who will enlighten you.
 

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The .308 Winchester is one of the smaller ones that I like ! I like the .308 and all it's offspring. Especially the 7mm-08. You made a great choice !

If you dont reload, check out the Federal Premium ammo loaded to 2840fps with a 150gr Nosler Partition http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=307 . That is good death for any deer ! They also load the 168gr Matchking bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thank you for all the info. would it be safe to say that im not going to be able to kill game at say 600 yards? I have been shooting for a long time and i am capable of making the shot.Is there a particular load that would put me there orr modifications to the gun itself?The 308 is new to me<i had been hunting with a 338 win mag the last couple years but the cost of ammo had me looking for something more affordable.
 

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The 308 will kill out to a fair distance. I do not see a problem out to 600 with a boiler room shot. 300 is no problem I have done that. I use the Hornady 168 grain A-Max for target shooting and a full case of Varget. My rifle shoots better than I do.
 

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thank you for all the info. would it be safe to say that im not going to be able to kill game at say 600 yards? I have been shooting for a long time and i am capable of making the shot.Is there a particular load that would put me there orr modifications to the gun itself?The 308 is new to me
At that range, I would move up to a heavier bullet for the better BC. It wont move out as fast, but it will hold it's speed better, and buck the wind a little better. A 165 or 180gr Accubond would be just the ticket. When it comes to target bullets, its anybodys game, but hunting bullets, its hard to beat Nosler. Atleast thats my opinion.
 

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thank you for all the info. would it be safe to say that im not going to be able to kill game at say 600 yards? I have been shooting for a long time and i am capable of making the shot.Is there a particular load that would put me there orr modifications to the gun itself?The 308 is new to me
welcome to the forum. I do not know where or what you are hunting, but is there a need to take such a long distance shot?

The .308 winchester came out just in advance if the Military's attempt to make a cartridge that would be similar to the 30-06, but allow troops to carry more ammunition. The 7.62x51mm NATO. The .308 Winchester was introduced in 1952, two years prior to the NATO adoption of the 7.62x51mm NATO T65. Winchester (a subsidiary of Olin Corporation) branded the cartridge and introduced it

Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different.

The .308 is by far my favorite round. I've been shooting it for a long, long time, in a 700 Remington, a BLR and my favorite platform, the M1A national match.
The .308 is accurate out to 1000 yards;
I've done it.
600 yard shots are easy, provided you know your firearm, and it's capability. The .308 'on average' and a general rule of thumb is about 300fps slower than the '06....

with a 165 grain bullet, the 308 gets about 2700fps, and around 2600me.
the 3006 with the same bullet will get 2800fps, with around 2800me.

So getting back to your question, yes, the round is capable, but as a hunter you'd be best to stalk your quarry closer, for a better and closer shot. Alot of factors can infuence the flight of a bullet out to 600.....wind, barometric pressures, humidity, ect.
as far as modifications, bedding a rifle can always improve accuracy.

What are you hunting at such distance???
 

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thank you for all the info. would it be safe to say that im not going to be able to kill game at say 600 yards? I have been shooting for a long time and i am capable of making the shot.Is there a particular load that would put me there orr modifications to the gun itself?The 308 is new to me<i had been hunting with a 338 win mag the last couple years but the cost of ammo had me looking for something more affordable.
Lee, no disrespect intended, but any person who is actually capable of making an ethical shot on a big game animal at 600 yards does not need to ask questions about it. The amount of practice time and equipment required to consistently put your first round in an 8" circle, at that range, is not for someone naive to the abilities of the 308 cartridge. So, either your questions are insincere, or your abilities are not as advertised.

Either way, if you absolutely must "kill" game that is 600 yards away, at least refrain from using the word "hunting" in your post. If you have to hold any higher than the top of a deer or elk's back, you should either head to the target range, or sneak in a little closer.

Here, let me move this soap-box aside.

Jason
 

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I'm glad he found somewhere in NC to hunt at that range. I'm lucky to find 300 yard shots, 400 if Im lucky. I can just take the Ultra and hold dead on :D

Broom, like it or not, 10 to 1500 yards, hunting is hunting.

Per Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: hunt·ing
Pronunciation: \ˈhən-tiŋ\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : the act of one that hunts; specifically : the pursuit of game


So if the game I'm pursuing is 800 yards away, then I'm still hunting it, because I went looking for it. Because you aren't capable of making those kind of shots, does not give you or anyone else the right to pass judgment on what it is. You aren't God or a Politician, so your opinion(s) are just that. We all know what opinions are like dont we ? Just so happens yours stinks worse than others. Plenty of people screw up close shots too ! A guy out the road from me, this past season, gut shot a Doe from 17 yards with a 30-30. She ran half a mile ! You call long range hunting "sniping", well I call bow hunting "slaughtering". It's too close, too personal, and just cruel for the animal to endure. Bow hunters are sadists, who get their kicks out of making things suffer.


You can have your soap box back.
 

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JLee, I myself can't smack anything out there at the 600 yard mark smaller than a garden shed, but I can always reach out 400 yards. If you can do the extra pull, do it. I shot with a kid from Michigan who could smack a full size deer target stuck in the ground between 400 and 600 yards all day long. He had laser rangefinders for eyeballs and was as steady as a concrete shooting bench. I would imagine anyone who didn't know him would admonish him not to desicrate the sacred art of hunting by shooting farther than they can. How far away can you hit a soapbox anyway?
 

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I am one of those that likes to do it all when it comes to Deer hunting, I Bow Hunt, Handgun hunt, MZ hunt & Rifle hunt & yes out to 600 yds or a little more if all the conditions are right. I use scent contol (what I can), camo (except for min. orange) & stealth the same way regardless of close range or far.

I think this "shooting vs hunting" as some say is flawed & downright goofy at times. 2 of my Deer stands overlook trails close to the stands & a couple of trails that are out there a ways. Again, I use all the stealth I can muster whether gun or bow hunting. So here is my question: If I am rifle hunting & choose to hunt one of these stands & instead of shooting a Buck that is crossing close to me I see a bigger Buck at one of the more distant trails & I opt to take him, why would the close one be hunting & the other one "shooting". Would I need to have color coded stakes at different yardages that would indicate when I am "hunting' & when I am "shooting"?

Makes no sense at all!!!

Back to the original question, you will need good optics, mounts & a good load worked up & a ton of practice. Use a bullet that will open up well at longer range & even though an Accubond is fairly tough, they will open up.
You mention Deer as the biggest animal, you will not have to have a premium for that if you use 165 & above in weight as the 308 has a modest vel. & as Tang said I would use the 165 & above for BC & esp. because of wind drift, trajectory can be plotted easier than wind drift.
 

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Yeah, I can do without that "bowhunters are sadist" BS. The last two deer I shot with a bow went maybe 15 yds combined. The two deer I shot with a 7 mag this year went 10yds and 30yds respectively. I don't care if you shoot a .30-378, unless there is no wind where you hunt, you are going to wound way more deer at 800yds than I am with a bow.
 

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Wounding deer isnt the problem I was mentioning with the bow. I know I would sure rather be shot with a rifle, than have razor blades ripped through my chest. How about you ? The point of technology is to move us forward, so why keep trying to be primitive ? The one good point of a bow, is hunting in city limits where guns cant be used at all. I wasnt just full on, throwing off on bow hunting, I was just making an example. Maybe to show how dumb it is to throw off on Long Range Hunting, just because one isn't capable. Bird Dog, you can breath easy. I dont own a 30-378, and I dont hunt at 800 yards. 400 yards is my max shot in the areas Im hunting right now. But I highly respect the guys who put in the money and the time to get proficient at their chosen hobby.


I appoligize to the orignal poster for the major hijack.
 

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Jim and Tang, let's please keep it civil.


Chris,

The the commercial .308 pressure limits are PSI as measured by Piezo transducer, while the military pressure limits of 50,000 psi and 52,000 psi (M118) for 7.62x51 are in "PSI" as measured by copper crusher; so, in commercial jargon, that is actually CUP. The military stubbornly refused to recognize that copper crushers didn't read proportionally to pressure until sometime in the mid to late 90's, IIRC? Anyway, the bottom line is, when apples are compared to apples, 7.62x51 and .308 Win have about the same peak pressures. The cartridge cases are both made to the same size, despite the chamber spec difference, so if one or the other fits in your gun without jamming into the throat (the NATO chamber has 0.030" longer freebore) you should be good to shoot.


JLeeH,

The .308 itself can kill just fine to very long distances. I believe 1200 yards is the record lethal .308 shot made by one of our snipers over in Iraq. But it is important to distinguish between a bullet's ability to carry lethal force over that range and the shooter's ability to put the bullet where he wants at that distance. The world record sniper shot was 2659 yards by a Canadian sniper using a .50 BMG round in Afghanistan, but it took two tries to land one. Plus, in war, wounding rather than killing is acceptable and, according to some doctrine, even desirable.

Your "ethical" hunting range, in this day and age of gadgetry, depends a lot on what equipment you have? Laser range finders, for example, have certainly enhanced our ability to make elevation corrections accurately. If you are in conditions where you and your equipment enable you to hit within 4" of your intended point of impact, regardless of what that distance is, it will be difficult for anyone to accuse you of being unethical for shooting deer at that range. If you shoot at a range where only one shot in 10 is that close, you can probably expect to be criticized for it. Given that nobody is perfect, it's really a matter of your probability of making the shot. Whether "unethical" begins at 5%, 10%, or some other probability of hitting more than 4" from your intended POI, you probably have to decide for yourself? Meanwhile, do learn at what ranges you can manage to stay within 4" of your intended POI, so you have an informed basis for making the decision?

As to bullets, precise shot placement at long range requires only that the bullets ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity be high enough. Sierra's revised 155 grain Palma match design has a BC that keeps up with the 175 grain MatchKing used by our military snipers. So, if fired at the same muzzle velocity, both will have the same drop and wind drift on their way to the target. In real life, the lighter bullet will be fired faster, giving it an advantage. However, it often works out that the heavier of the two will arrive at 1000 yards carrying more kinetic energy and momentum. For that reason you will likely get better effectiveness from a heavier bullet at long range. None of the 150 grain hunting bullets have the high BC's of the match bullets, so I figure a 150 with flat base should be good to 300 yards or so. Beyond that I would look at what accuracy you can get from boattails of various weights. You'll probably be happier out there with longer range performance from bullets 165 grains and up.
 
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