30AR--What is it?
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Remington introduced it around mid 2008 for AR platform type rifles...bout all I know about it.
This should answer a few questions:http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/
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This should answer a few questions:http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/
This is a companion cartridge to go along with the R15 platform, claiming performance similar to the .308. In truth, it is closer to a 300 Savage, or somewhat better than a 30/30...but ONLY with lighter bullets.
Here's a little "rah-rah" blurb from Remington: http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/30-remington-ar/30-remington-ar.aspx
The case appears to be optimized for 125gr bullets, so you might think of it as the bigger brother of the 6.8SPC round. Here is a much better (more honest?) write-up on the new case: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/RS_30remingtonar_200904/
Sounds to me like a decent option for deer hunting, although why one would choose this over the 6.8, or stepping up to an AR10 and .308 eludes my simple mind.
NOTE: This is NOT the "old" 30 Remington case, which the 6.8SPC was derived from.
Here's a little "rah-rah" blurb from Remington: http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/30-remington-ar/30-remington-ar.aspx
The case appears to be optimized for 125gr bullets, so you might think of it as the bigger brother of the 6.8SPC round. Here is a much better (more honest?) write-up on the new case: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/RS_30remingtonar_200904/
Sounds to me like a decent option for deer hunting, although why one would choose this over the 6.8, or stepping up to an AR10 and .308 eludes my simple mind.
NOTE: This is NOT the "old" 30 Remington case, which the 6.8SPC was derived from.
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I thought the same thing...why this when they coulda just built one to hand the 308 Win? Remington makes me scratch my head sometimes....
Well, Remington offers the R25 (AR10) which is chambered for the .243, 7mm-08 and 308, so they have that base covered. (Frustrates the heck outta me that they didn't offer it in 260Rem!) The idea with this round is to make it work with an R15 (AR15) lower so you can swap it out with your .223 or other barrels. Nice thought, but I think the 6.8SPC is still a better option, no matter that a lot of hunters in the US don't like anything smaller than 30 cal for deer.
The 30 AR is capable according to Remington to push a 123 grain bullet 2800 FPS and it is predicted by Layne Simpson that the cartridge could push a 150 grain bullet to 2400 to 2500 FPS
The cartridges looks more like the 308X1.5" with a rebated rim
If the velocity that is cited by Remington is close then the 30 AR is more than the 7.63X39
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They do offer it in 260 http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/category.aspx?id=8
I meant the Remington R25, deadduck. Clearly, one can have just about any modern gun fitted to a new barrel, but why would the company who created such a useful cartridge, in the 260R, neglect to support it be making it an offering in their latest, most "advanced" hunting rifle platform? Remington is choosing to support the .243 over the .260, when the latter is a more effective and versatile big game round. If people want to shoot varmints with and AR, they'll go with the smaller framed rifle and .223 round, so why offer the .243 in the R25, when the .260 has substantial advantages over its smaller cousin?
From a purely marketing perspective, Remington is smart to offer a full camo gun, because all "black guns" really do turn a lot of would-be buyers off! Like it or not, that's a simple truth. Heck, I freely admit to not having any interest in a totally black gun, but I would consider one of the "R" guns from Remington, because they don't look (as much) like an assault rifle.
Now, I'm not bashing AR's and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have them...I'm just saying if you want to bring them more into the mainstream, as a hunting weapon, having a little wood on them, or the full camo presentation, is simply going to appeal to more hunters. I guess time will tell how quickly the hunting public turns away from their beloved levers and highly accurate bolt guns to embrace a new paradigm in hunting firearms. Given that these options have been around for nearly 40 years, without making any serious inroads, I'm not sure Remington is barking up the right tree here. Still, those returning from foreign wars that carried these guns in conflict will be comfortable using them for sporting purposes: That has been the way many new actions were introduced to the sporting world. Maybe the 30 AR will be one of the prominent deer hunting cartridges, 20 years from now...who knows?
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While I agree with you, they are probably doing so in the 243 because it is a popular round, while the 260 is treading water. I like the 260 and always wanted one, but they are probably looking at it from how many they would actually sell. BUT...they could always test the market and produce a set number and see how they sell and go from there. But maybe the cost of doing that is more then they are willing to gamble..I dunno.
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I thought the whole point of marketing was to always get people to buy the newer/bigger/badder things. Isn't that how they ensnare young'uns like me? By telling us how "cool" we'll be by having a remake of a 90 year old round?
"But look at this! It's new!"
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I agree, Remington has never done anything with the 260, they threw a fine cartridge out there and never supported it with varying firearms. I have a VLS in 260 but they stopped that many a year ago. The 260 would be ideal in the SPS tactical, SPS Varmint, Target Tactical, Varmint SF, VTR, XCR Tactical Long Range, XCR Compact Tactical, VLS, 700P, 700P LTR and M24.
What I was getting at though was that DPMS manufacturers the R25 for Remington, Remington just has them camoed. Get a 260 DPMS and have it dipped and you have a R25 in .260 .
Remington isn't chambering their R25 in the 260R and they spent a lot of time and money extensively modifying the 450 Bushmaster, including a very odd rim size, instead of going with the a shortened 300 Savage or 308ME (with a rimless modification). Like many other entities that grow too large to react well as conditions change, Remington isn't supporting a great product in their own 260R cartridge and they are reaching for the brass ring of marketing, instead of giving new life to a proven round, in the 300 Savage.
If Remington had really wanted a fatter case than the 300 Savage, a shortened 308ME-Rimless would be the answer to all their needs in their R-15 platform. It has almost exactly the same body diameter as their 30AR and could be trimmed .350" to give the same length. The two cases have the same 50,000psi ceiling. Even if the 30AR proves to be a world-beater (who are we kidding?) Remington probably won't realize it or give the cartridge the support it needs to succeed.
Duck, I know DPMS is building these for Remington and I could just dip one I bought from them, the way Remington does. I could buy a 12 pound AR in .260R, instead of the Encore I have which weighs just over 7lbs, however, I don't want to lug around almost twice as much weight and I'm definitely a one-shot kind of hunter. That's not to say I won't buy one, eventually, because I tend to think such a rifle, in that caliber, would be an exceptional choice for the one-gun survivalist looking for big-game and bad-guy stopping power. I don't think the 30AR will be as capable, at least not at the same ranges. For one thing, a 125gr .308 bullet does not have nearly the sectional density of a 140gr .264" bullet, when comparing like velocity between a 30AR and 260R.
If Remington had really wanted a fatter case than the 300 Savage, a shortened 308ME-Rimless would be the answer to all their needs in their R-15 platform. It has almost exactly the same body diameter as their 30AR and could be trimmed .350" to give the same length. The two cases have the same 50,000psi ceiling. Even if the 30AR proves to be a world-beater (who are we kidding?) Remington probably won't realize it or give the cartridge the support it needs to succeed.
Duck, I know DPMS is building these for Remington and I could just dip one I bought from them, the way Remington does. I could buy a 12 pound AR in .260R, instead of the Encore I have which weighs just over 7lbs, however, I don't want to lug around almost twice as much weight and I'm definitely a one-shot kind of hunter. That's not to say I won't buy one, eventually, because I tend to think such a rifle, in that caliber, would be an exceptional choice for the one-gun survivalist looking for big-game and bad-guy stopping power. I don't think the 30AR will be as capable, at least not at the same ranges. For one thing, a 125gr .308 bullet does not have nearly the sectional density of a 140gr .264" bullet, when comparing like velocity between a 30AR and 260R.
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