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30AR--What is it?

2341 Views 13 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  broom_jm
I see this caliber listed in the Redding die section of Midway's catalog. Is it, like the 7mm TCU, a necked up .223 or something else? It seems like I've seen 30TCU mentioned before so maybe the 30AR is different.
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This is a companion cartridge to go along with the R15 platform, claiming performance similar to the .308. In truth, it is closer to a 300 Savage, or somewhat better than a 30/30...but ONLY with lighter bullets.

Here's a little "rah-rah" blurb from Remington:

The case appears to be optimized for 125gr bullets, so you might think of it as the bigger brother of the 6.8SPC round. Here is a much better (more honest?) write-up on the new case:

Sounds to me like a decent option for deer hunting, although why one would choose this over the 6.8, or stepping up to an AR10 and .308 eludes my simple mind.

NOTE: This is NOT the "old" 30 Remington case, which the 6.8SPC was derived from.
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Well, Remington offers the R25 (AR10) which is chambered for the .243, 7mm-08 and 308, so they have that base covered. (Frustrates the heck outta me that they didn't offer it in 260Rem!) The idea with this round is to make it work with an R15 (AR15) lower so you can swap it out with your .223 or other barrels. Nice thought, but I think the 6.8SPC is still a better option, no matter that a lot of hunters in the US don't like anything smaller than 30 cal for deer.
I meant the Remington R25, deadduck. Clearly, one can have just about any modern gun fitted to a new barrel, but why would the company who created such a useful cartridge, in the 260R, neglect to support it be making it an offering in their latest, most "advanced" hunting rifle platform? Remington is choosing to support the .243 over the .260, when the latter is a more effective and versatile big game round. If people want to shoot varmints with and AR, they'll go with the smaller framed rifle and .223 round, so why offer the .243 in the R25, when the .260 has substantial advantages over its smaller cousin?

From a purely marketing perspective, Remington is smart to offer a full camo gun, because all "black guns" really do turn a lot of would-be buyers off! Like it or not, that's a simple truth. Heck, I freely admit to not having any interest in a totally black gun, but I would consider one of the "R" guns from Remington, because they don't look (as much) like an assault rifle.

Now, I'm not bashing AR's and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have them...I'm just saying if you want to bring them more into the mainstream, as a hunting weapon, having a little wood on them, or the full camo presentation, is simply going to appeal to more hunters. I guess time will tell how quickly the hunting public turns away from their beloved levers and highly accurate bolt guns to embrace a new paradigm in hunting firearms. Given that these options have been around for nearly 40 years, without making any serious inroads, I'm not sure Remington is barking up the right tree here. Still, those returning from foreign wars that carried these guns in conflict will be comfortable using them for sporting purposes: That has been the way many new actions were introduced to the sporting world. Maybe the 30 AR will be one of the prominent deer hunting cartridges, 20 years from now...who knows?
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Remington isn't chambering their R25 in the 260R and they spent a lot of time and money extensively modifying the 450 Bushmaster, including a very odd rim size, instead of going with the a shortened 300 Savage or 308ME (with a rimless modification). Like many other entities that grow too large to react well as conditions change, Remington isn't supporting a great product in their own 260R cartridge and they are reaching for the brass ring of marketing, instead of giving new life to a proven round, in the 300 Savage.

If Remington had really wanted a fatter case than the 300 Savage, a shortened 308ME-Rimless would be the answer to all their needs in their R-15 platform. It has almost exactly the same body diameter as their 30AR and could be trimmed .350" to give the same length. The two cases have the same 50,000psi ceiling. Even if the 30AR proves to be a world-beater (who are we kidding?) Remington probably won't realize it or give the cartridge the support it needs to succeed.

Duck, I know DPMS is building these for Remington and I could just dip one I bought from them, the way Remington does. I could buy a 12 pound AR in .260R, instead of the Encore I have which weighs just over 7lbs, however, I don't want to lug around almost twice as much weight and I'm definitely a one-shot kind of hunter. That's not to say I won't buy one, eventually, because I tend to think such a rifle, in that caliber, would be an exceptional choice for the one-gun survivalist looking for big-game and bad-guy stopping power. I don't think the 30AR will be as capable, at least not at the same ranges. For one thing, a 125gr .308 bullet does not have nearly the sectional density of a 140gr .264" bullet, when comparing like velocity between a 30AR and 260R.
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