[frenchy]

hi Hunters,

Still looking for a rifle to buy ( to combine drive hunting in Europe and possible bigger game at longer distance ( 300 yards max).

It seems that ruger/Hornady have given a answer to this with the Compact short barrel M77Hawkeye..
Would like to hear from you any good/ bad experience §§

Thanks fellows.

Phil( from Strasbourg)

 

[gunchamp]

I vote for the 375 ruger. I have the alaskan and I'm getting ready to scope the rifle. The recoil is not that bad and with handloads, the gun is a fine long range hunter. Even the factory 270 gn is pretty flat at your distances. Great all around gun and caliber!

 

[leverite]

I only have aspirations, not experience with these calibers. The 375 Ruger is tempting and seems to have the right stuff to endure.

Many of us were disappointed when Ruger shortened up the 375's excellent case before necking it down to 338 and 30 cal. BUt I expect that's where most of the market for new cartridges is to be found. Few of us are looney enough to want 338 ultra mag, 358 STA or even 358 Norma performance in their rifles.

Just seems like the 30 cal short mag market is pretty well filled w/ more established cartridges. Maybe the 338 RCM will endure where the 325 WSM failed.

 

[frenchy]

Thanks for info.Gunchamp , what about the trigger of the Ruger rifle? I've read somewhere it's a bit stiff or coarse... have you kept the original one. if not what are the substitution alternatives ??

Have a good day !

 

[beartracker]

If you are going to drive hunt and 300yds is max and you are not hunting something as large and dangerous, why don't you get a 308 or 30-06 in a Ruger Hawkeye with only a 22" barrel. You could get the compact model in 308. The new triggers on the Hawkeye rifles are great. I own three Hawkeye rifles and the triggers are good.

 

[frenchy]

you are totally wright BEartracker! the thing is that 308 and 30-06 are forbidden in France due to military usage !!

So I have to go either for .300 ( a bit too light for Wild boars in drive hunts where these animals are running faster than Mr Hussein Bolt himself )or then for .338 or even .375.
We have also good calibers like 9,3X62, 7X64, 8X 68S, .. but there are either too weak at 200yards or rifles are not barrelled with 20 or 22" but rather with 26" which starts to be unpracticle in the dense woods!
You guys in America have been more innovative and practical ..

Actually I just noticed that an other member of our forum ( Ziptie) is wondering the same thing than me !!

Bye

 

[gunchamp]

The trigger is much improved. about 4-5 lb pull. I still have the factory trigger. More than adequate for hunting. I absolutely love the 20" barrel on this rifle. Very handy and the 375 ruger still has a little more velocity than standard 375 h&h out of a longer barrel. Plus if you handload, the 375 is extremely flexible and makes a wanderful all around big game cartridge!

 

[Bird Dog II]

I guess with the internet and free trade, maybe this isn't an issue, but won't .375 Ruger or .338 RCM ammo be hard to come by in Europe? Heck, it is here. And for sure it is expensive. I know you reload, but it is still nice to be able to find a box of shells locally, or in an Alaskan general store, or in Africa, if you ever need it. I would go with a .338 Win Mag, or .375 H&H Mag. My guess is the game will never know the difference.

Ruger is kind of screwing themselves in my opinion. I would love to get one of there Alaskans with a Hogue stock, but not in the calibers they are offering. So some other arms company will get that sale. But if that is what you want, and ammo is not an issue, I hear their triggers are now up to average standards.

 

[leverite]

you are totally wright BEartracker! the thing is that 308 and 30-06 are forbidden in France due to military usage !!

So I have to go either for .300 ( a bit too light for Wild boars in drive hunts where these animals are running faster than Mr Hussein Bolt himself )or then for .338 or even .375.
We have also good calibers like 9,3X62, 7X64, 8X 68S, .. but there are either too weak at 200yards or rifles are not barrelled with 20 or 22" but rather with 26" which starts to be unpracticle in the dense woods!
You guys in America have been more innovative and practical ..

Actually I just noticed that an other member of our forum ( Ziptie) is wondering the same thing than me !!

Bye

I don't see how the 300 win mag w/ a 200 or 220 grain bullet would be to light for boars. Especially when you acknowledge a 30-06 would be a good choice, if you could get it. If the barrel's too long on a winmag or a 9.3x62, cut it back.

Ruger makes (or made) a Frontier (16.5" barrel) in 300 WSM. I have on in 358 Win and it's very handy. Trigger is fine.

 

[beartracker]

you are totally wright BEartracker! the thing is that 308 and 30-06 are forbidden in France due to military usage !!

So I have to go either for .300 ( a bit too light for Wild boars in drive hunts where these animals are running faster than Mr Hussein Bolt himself )or then for .338 or even .375.
We have also good calibers like 9,3X62, 7X64, 8X 68S, .. but there are either too weak at 200yards or rifles are not barrelled with 20 or 22" but rather with 26" which starts to be unpracticle in the dense woods!
You guys in America have been more innovative and practical ..

Actually I just noticed that an other member of our forum ( Ziptie) is wondering the same thing than me !!

Bye

You are right about being more innovative and practical. More innovative in that we are addicted to guns and have to have more fixes and practical in that if we don't have a lot of money so we are able to do with what works best for the moment.

If you reload a 358Win in the Hawkeye is very good. I would choose the 375 Ruger but it will be hard to always get ammo. It will be interesting to see what you do decide to get. I did not know that about france and the 30-06 and 308.

 

[shane256]

.35 Whelen (while maybe not so easy to find in Europe) is an alternative as well (also available in Ruger Hawkeye)... .30-06 case with a .358"/9mm bullet. But a 9.3x62 is pretty much the same thing.

 

[gunpa]

I don't see how the 300 win mag w/ a 200 or 220 grain bullet would be to light for boars. Especially when you acknowledge a 30-06 would be a good choice, if you could get it. If the barrel's too long on a winmag or a 9.3x62, cut it back.

Ruger makes (or made) a Frontier (16.5" barrel) in 300 WSM. I have on in 358 Win and it's very handy. Trigger is fine.

I don't think you will find ANY wsm calibers in Ruger rifles. They were the first to chamber them way back when (SEE RICK JAMIESON FIASCO) . Gun writers had actually shone up for a hunt and write-up when the lawyers had it stopped. Ruger never got over that. I've been looking through my New Midway cataloge and found more bulk brass and even loaded ammo for the RCM'S than my 338 win! So ammo problems may not be a big hurtle, especially if you reload. Time will tell. I have a new Hawkeye in 338 win and the lc6 trigger is much better than old ruger triggers , but all my other rifles have had trigger jobs , so the stacking and pull weight bothered me at first but seem to be less of a big deal the more I shoot it. Somebody needs to buy one and tell us about it, so go for it!

 

[Tang]

I don't think you will find ANY wsm calibers in Ruger rifles. They were the first to chamber them way back when (SEE RICK JAMIESON FIASCO) . Gun writers had actually shone up for a hunt and write-up when the lawyers had it stopped. Ruger never got over that. I've been looking through my New Midway cataloge and found more bulk brass and even loaded ammo for the RCM'S than my 338 win! So ammo problems may not be a big hurtle, especially if you reload. Time will tell. I have a new Hawkeye in 338 win and the lc6 trigger is much better than old ruger triggers , but all my other rifles have had trigger jobs , so the stacking and pull weight bothered me at first but seem to be less of a big deal the more I shoot it. Somebody needs to buy one and tell us about it, so go for it!

Yeap I had a M77 MkII All Weather on order in .325 WSM. It never came to be.

 

[Tnhunter]

The new RCMs do offer something interesting to the hunting market, giving excellent velocities even with their shorter barrels. The 20" S/A Ruger is a very handy length, perfect for boar, I'd believe. There are new Superperformance loads for both the .300 and .338RCM and they are already available here and in stock in some places.

I would think that a .300RCM shooting a 180gr bullet @ 3040FPS would be fine medicine for any boar. Surely the .338 shooting a 225gr @ 2750 would be plenty adequate. I am trying myself, right now, to decide between these two new calibers for a new purchase.

 

[Tang]

I will believe the 3040 when I see it on a chrono for myself. Sitting side by side, you cant tell the difference in a WSM and RCM. 2800 MAYBE, out of a 20" barrel, but I believe even that is pushing it. Fastest listed load on Ammoguide for a .300 RCM is 2922 with a 24" barrel.

Im a huge Ruger fan and I love Hornady products, but the RCM is not and will never be anything more than the .300 WSM is/was. Both good cartridges, in light handy rifles, but dont be fooled by marketing and Hornady's super dooper secret powders. Anyone here can tell you Im a Ruger man, but if I were you, I'd find a Mark II Frontier in .300 WSM if thats the route you are wanting to go.

.300 WSM
Case Length - 2.100"
Rim - .535"
Base of body - .5550"
Body before shoulder - .5381"
35º shoulder
length of neck - .2979"
79.3gr of water

.300 RCM
Case Length - 2.100"
Rim - .532"
Base of body - .5320"
Body before shoulder - .515"
30º shoulder
length of neck - .352"
71.4gr of water

RCM left , WSM right

 

[Tnhunter]

Well, first off, I reread my post and still didn't see where I said they were better than anything. I did say, however, that they certainly are interesting and if their velocities are what they say they are, they ARE at least interesting. I have read extensively about the new Superperformance loads by Hornady and have found anyone who DID chrony them has found they are as advertised. The RCMs were devised using new powders made specifically to enhance performance in shorter tubes and now also use new Superperformance blends.

The Superprformance loads are made in several calibers, both magnum and non-magnum and the powders are, of course, non canister and mixes (even different mixtures within caliber for different bullet weights). In my opinion case capacity is no longer the where-with-all of performance today. Proprietary powders have shown in more than one case (pun intended) that a case does NOT have to be larger to outperform another, simply contain a newer powder or mixture of powders. Because a handloader does not have access to all of the newest technology in modern powders and cannot duplicate every load, that simply doesn't mean it cannot happen. I suppose that it's hard to believe that a company's technology and R&D might be more inventive than a person sitting in their basement reloading
(I do appreciate your advice on a caliber, but feel perfectly capable of making a decision on a new caliber myself, seeing as how it will then be 32 or 33 different calibers I've chosen)

 

[Tang]

Oh no, I believe it. Hornady's 225gr Heavy Mags in my .338 Win Mag made 2931 over the chrono from my 24" barrel. So I know they have their fairy dust powders. The RCM has the more efficient 30º shoulder, allowing the use of faster powders, but it gives up a little in body size. It is beyond me why Ruger didnt use the full length .375 case to make a .300. Now that would have been worth the trouble ! You would have gotten .300 Wby performance from a standard length case. I did all the "paper work" for that wildcat and called it the .300 Cana, but I decided not to hack up my rifle to make it. Now that I have my RUM, I may use my .300 Win Mag and have it reamed out to the .300 Cana (Quickload experiments show 3250 with a 180gr from a 24" barrel)

I edited my post, so not to appear insulting to you. Im just saying, let this first band wagon go on by and see whats on the next one. That or meet some of us belted mag guys on the broke down bandwagons out back.

 

[gunpa]

Hornady definately does get their advertised velocities from the RCM with 20inch tubes. That's been well documented. Apparently Ruger's R&D dept. decided there was enough of a market for a short barreled ultralight rifle, that had very close velocities to the WSM with a longer tube, to market it with Hornady. I've never shot one , but watching people shoot it, it's obvious the little rifles really smack you around. Maybe enough to even make Tang smile! Ruger may yet neck down it's 375 case, or maybe they have and weren't impressed. It does seem to be a good idea but not for little short barreled rifles , recoil junkies excluded , of course!

 

[Tnhunter]

There's little "joy" for anyone shooting a heavy recoiling rifle (IMO), except when looking at those little groups afterwards....lol. If you use your head by perhaps limiting the sessions some and a good rest at the range the recoil is simply not noticed in the field. I'm not looking to "outproduce" anything, but rather to "out-handy" something else. I simply realize how much I enjoy the handiness of a short rifle, whether in a treestand, still and spot and stalk hunting, or on horseback with a rifle slung across your back. No rifles with 26" barrels live here, or ever will. They are simply not handy in the type hunting I do.

 

[TMan]

.300 WSM
Case Length - 2.100"
Rim - .535"
Base of body - .5550"
Body before shoulder - .5381"
35º shoulder
length of neck - .2979"
79.3gr of water

.300 RCM
Case Length - 2.100"
Rim - .532"
Base of body - .5320"
Body before shoulder - .515"
30º shoulder
length of neck - .352"
71.4gr of water

RCM left , WSM right

Actually, I have to wonder why Ruger even bothered on that one.