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Which would be the best for deer and hogs. ? The 35 cal. 200 gr. at 2075fps or the 280 gr. cast at about 1600fps
 

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Get them both! (grin)

Actually it's a bit subjective. You should be able to reach out farther with the 35 as far as a flatter trajectory however, I would say that they are both excellent calibers for woods ranges.

With the Beartooth LBT designs I really don't think you can go wrong with either cartridge. It usually boils down to personal preference.

I have a 35 Rem 12" Hunter barrel for a Contender and can easily push a 180 gr Hornady SSSP bullet to over 2000 FPS safely. I'll be trying cast in this barrel shortly.

If you like the fatter bullets, I have a 445 Super Mag in a 12" and 16" bbls.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with either one of these calibers. The 280 WFN is an excellent bullet by the way.

FWIW


:cool:
 

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Tony,

I shall wade carefully into the dangerous waters.

The 35 Rem will have a slight trajectory advantage on longer shots on deer. While the 35 certainly won't be a slouch when it comes to hogs, you have to admit the 280 44 caliber at 1600 fps should just about kill, quarter, and cook most of the hogs you'll have a chance to shoot. On really big game perserve hogs I'd go for the bigger bullet without question.

I'm very found of the 44 and the 280 WFN GC is more than likely the best all around bullet for that caliber. Whats best about the 44 magnum is that you can pair up your lever action rifle with a handgun in the same caliber and be ready for just about anything. Either caliber and bullet combo will do the job. I'd pick the gun you like the best and have some fun.
 

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Given the much larger metplat area of the 44, and assuming you'd be hunting in the brush, which would probably mean <100 yard shots, I would definitely rank the 44 mag over the 35 remington.
 

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If the gun is ONLY for deer and hogs, I would opt for the 35 Rem. Both cartridges have more than enough knockdown power for those animals. Why not increase your range a little bit (although neither are long range cartridges) and get the faster 35 Rem? Then again, if range is a concern, you would get something other than a 35 or 44...

It's pretty subjective though...both of those should perform admirably on deer, hogs, and even something as big as an Elk...as always, bullet placement is premium. Doubt you can go wrong either way.
 

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Tony
Look up some of the threads written up by Remington 35 on this forum as well as ther Marlin owners forum.
Looks like your reloading the 44 already.

Well start loading the 35 Remington with some of the loads posted
Or buy a box from BB.
A box of factory rounds work well, but roll a few of your own with the 180 /220 speer, and the little 35 is no longer little at all.
Happy
 

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All the replies are quality ones.

I do believe the 44 mag to be superior to the 35 remington unless your shooting at 100+ yards...and thats when the superior ballistics of the 35 remington take over. Considering the majority of shots are taken at less than 100 yards...I'd have to choose the 44.

The 44 is a significantly larger diameter bullet than the 35...which negates the need for bullet expansion. The larger surface metplat area...especially if you will be firing flathead 300+ grainers like garretts hammerheads...will hit harder and penetrate more deeply due to it's hardcast design. Garrett has demonstrated that his +p hammerheads can outpenetrate 458 winchester mags.

Of course...unless you cast your own bullets..this route will get expensive quickly...as super hardcast alloy bullets such as Garrett's don't run cheap.

I'm a little biased I guess! Both bullets will get the job done. I guess in the end it boils down to preference:)

I would make the same arguement in favor of the 444 marlin and 45/70 at modern pressures instead of high powered calibers like the 338 winchester or 7mm Rem Mag.
 

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My way of thinking , if ther bullet expands it is leaving energy in the animal. So a thirty cal. or 308 bullet expanding and leaving say an inch or more, exit wound may have more effect than say the 45/70 slug that goes in with a .459 hole and comes though and out the same .459 size hole

The last deer I shot with the 45/70 throgh the back in to the chest the bullet tore through the lungs and out the bottom.
The deer ran maybe twenty feet .
Same stye of shot with another deer with the 6.5x55 . the bullet entered the back tore through into the lung and out. this time the deer went down tried to get back up but could not move it'd rear quarters.
The 6.5 shoots a lot further, mushroomed real nice and left a bigger exit wound. Not only did it drop the deer to the ground, it pinned it ,where as the 45/70made a half inch hole in and out and the
animal just bled out then dropped.
The only way I knew it was hit was the tail dropped.

So which bullet did better ? Well both deer were dead, so both bullets did the job for what it was intended.
It is when you get past the hundred yards that things tend to change.
One needs a 3" hold over at a hundred yards while the other is fine with an inch high at a hundred and travel beyond the other.



So comparing the orange to the apple , the apple you take a bite , the orange you peel first.
In the end they both taste good.
The hand loaded 35 is the apple in my house.
The 358W? that's the cake and the ice cream

If general Custard had the trapdoor 45/70 and the natives the 44/40 repeating lever action rifles. then who had the edge? It is not a one word answer.
 

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I believe the 35 Rem to be superior at all ranges. What we have to keep in mind is that 44 mag is a handgun round while the 35 Rem is a rifle round. And while most deer may be taken at less than 100 yards, there are times where the opportunity is a little further.

Checking around, it seems that a 44 mag with a 280 grain @ 1600 fps is a fairly hot load and I'm not so sure it can be pushed that fast. In load swap, the fastest listed is 1500 fps. Comparing the original rounds Tony addressed I crunched some numbers in my ballistics software and came up with:

35 Rem (Federals Hi-Shok)
Muzzle - 2080 fps, 1921 fpe
100 yards - 1700 fps, 1278 fpe
200 yards - 1380 fps, 838 fpe

44 Mag

Muzzle - 1600 fps, 1591 fpe
100 yards - 1309 fps, 1065 fpe
200 yards - 1104 fps, 757 fpe

Crunching in the load in load swap for the 44 mag I get:

Muzzle - 1500 fps, 1398 fpe
100 yards - 1233 fps, 945 fpe
200 yards - 1059 fps, 697 fpe

And throwing in Buffalo Bores 35 Rem 220 grn load:

Muzzle - 2200 fps, 2364 fpe
100 yards - 1936 fps, 1831 fpe
200 yards - 1693 fps, 1401 fpe

While the larger bore in the 44 mag does stand for something, a nicely mushroomed 35 caliber bullet almost an inch in diameter is nothing to sneeze at and it will leave a nice wound channel. The 44 mag is not a 444 marlin and cannot push a 280 grain bullet fast enough for superiority over the 35 Rem. The advantage is in the 35 Rem at all ranges.... :)
 

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M1Garand said:
I believe the 35 Rem to be superior at all ranges. What we have to keep in mind is that 44 mag is a handgun round while the 35 Rem is a rifle round. And while most deer may be taken at less than 100 yards, there are times where the opportunity is a little further.

Checking around, it seems that a 44 mag with a 280 grain @ 1600 fps is a fairly hot load and I'm not so sure it can be pushed that fast. In load swap, the fastest listed is 1500 fps. Comparing the original rounds Tony addressed I crunched some numbers in my ballistics software and came up with:

35 Rem (Federals Hi-Shok)
Muzzle - 2080 fps, 1921 fpe
100 yards - 1700 fps, 1278 fpe
200 yards - 1380 fps, 838 fpe

44 Mag

Muzzle - 1600 fps, 1591 fpe
100 yards - 1309 fps, 1065 fpe
200 yards - 1104 fps, 757 fpe

Crunching in the load in load swap for the 44 mag I get:

Muzzle - 1500 fps, 1398 fpe
100 yards - 1233 fps, 945 fpe
200 yards - 1059 fps, 697 fpe

And throwing in Buffalo Bores 35 Rem 220 grn load:

Muzzle - 2200 fps, 2364 fpe
100 yards - 1936 fps, 1831 fpe
200 yards - 1693 fps, 1401 fpe

While the larger bore in the 44 mag does stand for something, a nicely mushroomed 35 caliber bullet almost an inch in diameter is nothing to sneeze at and it will leave a nice wound channel. The 44 mag is not a 444 marlin and cannot push a 280 grain bullet fast enough for superiority over the 35 Rem. The advantage is in the 35 Rem at all ranges.... :)
You make for a good arguement. Bullet size/wound characteristics/penetration at various speeds could carry a conversation on all day!

Were you to put the 35 up against garretts rounds...and do a penetration test...the 44 would easily win. Does this necessarily mean the 44 mag is a better choice? No...but it is significant for hunters looking for a bullet that has less of a tendency to richochet or fragment when striking bone area.

Either one will get the job done...personal preference and the ability of the shooter will both be deciding factors in the end.

I have some 340 grain LBT at chronoed at 1470 fps from buffalobore...so 280 at 1600 is certainly doable. I wouldn't shoot it exclusively though at the range...it's a hunting load.

One could make hte same arguement with the 454 casull and 30-06 rifle. Which would be a superior bear round? At what point is penetration and larger bullet size more desireable than velocity? At what ranges do you plan on shooting? The 454 using hardcast leadalloy bullets will routinely out penetrate the 30-06. When you are referring to large and dangerous game...making a frontal shot...where you need to defeat a cranial plate 3-5 inches thick with a low risk of ricochet plus penetrate significantly into the hindquarters of the animal..lets say a griz...the 454...within 100 yards...will most likely out perform the 30-06.

The same can be said for the resurgence of the new 45-70 loads as a big game caliber that beats out other hi powered contenders like the 338 winchester mag or venerable 375 H&H. For years hunters were concerned about having very high powered rifles...not realizing that often the faster these bullets go...the less they penetrate(Mr. Garrett recently showed us the logic behind this study). It is my opinion that penetration is the #1 most important factor in determining the appropriate bullet(in potentially dangerous game). If I can have a larger diameter bullet...with a larger metplat area...that even at slower speeds..will outpenetrate other high powered bullets...with a much smaller chance of deflection...than I will choose that bullet.

Just my opinion folks:)
 

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Years ago, we lived in northern California and I hunted blacktails in Napa and Sonoma Counties. Mostly I hunted with a Marlin 1894 in 44 MAG and Williams peep site. These coastal deer rarely exceed 125 pounds live weight. My shots averaged about 75 yards as I hunted from well concealed blinds.

For no other reason than best accurasy, I hunted with Hornady 200 grain hollow tip bullets. Killing power was quite impressive. Sometimes the deer would topple over where it stood. Other occaisions it would bound away only to drop after a few jumps. The bullets were always recovered and typically measured about 3/4 inch in diameter.

We hunted wild boar many times. They're commonly found wherever a reservoir is located along the coastal range. Check the feeder stream where it forms a muddy shoreline first. The 200 grain bullet does NOT penetrate large boars well. I DO NOT recommend it for tough boars. Hornady's 300 grainer is a far better choice. Yet this bullet's trajectory is anything but flat in comparison.

35 Remington is a much more powerful cartridge. Yet recoil is not tough at all. Standard 200 grain factory bullets will do it all- from whitetails to Wyoming elk. Speer 180 grain is a better choice for long-ish shots of 175 yards or so. Many deer hunters prefer 150 grain ammo as loaded by Remington although I have no experiance to share about this particular bullet. For boar, I'd hunt with Remington's 200 grain core-lockt.

In summary, both cartridges are good choices for the woodsman and careful hunter. Ruger model 96 replaced my Marlin a few years back. Although Ruger's hardwood stock is lower quality, accurasy is much much better with heavier bullets. Three inch groups at 100 yards with 250 grain Nosler bullets are common.

Hope this is helpful.
TR
 

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After using the .35, .44 mag. & special, as well as .45 Colt Buffalo Bore offerings on hogs and deer, I can say for sure that any one of them will take game with authority, even bordering in overkill, and please take that with a grain of common sense. At close range, say inside of 30 yards, even the factory 200 grain .35 will ruin a LOT of meat, and will go clean through a 250 pound hog at the shoulder. BB's heavy .35 Rem has nearly twice the recoil as one receives from the tried and true Core-locts. In fact while using the 220gr. .35 and the 320 grain cast .45 Colt BufBore heavies on seperate hunts, I've shot through two hogs at once, and if there had been third one hiding behind the first two, I'm quite sure it would have been more meat in the freezer None of the deer or hogs I've shot with my Marlin .44 got more than a few steps either. One thing to consider, along with your effective shooting distance, is just how much you like the action of a levergun carbine cycling pistol rounds as opposed to a longer barreled (normally) gun running much longer rifle rounds through it. If it was heavy brush that I'd be hunting in, with almost no option for shots over 75 yards, I'm gonna go with my 1894 action carbine. If it's deer sized game and up, I'm taking a rifle cartridge loaded appropriately. It's not really a (this vs. that), it more of what's going to work best for you in the conditions that you hunt.
My .02, your results may vary!
M1Garand said:
35 Remington...buffalo bore also makes a 220 grn flat point @ 2200 fps.
 

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The .44's certainly no slouch, but the .35 is a rifle after all. It has the advantage in both power and trajectory. On deer sized game it will expand better and still penetrate well. If you need to go after something really tough you can just as easily load the .35 with cast bullets as you can the .44 and get even better penetration. It's a close call either way, but I think the .35 is much more versatile and at the very least just as powerful if not more so.
 

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SFT said:
After using the .35, .44 mag. & special, as well as .45 Colt Buffalo Bore offerings on hogs and deer, I can say for sure that any one of them will take game with authority, even bordering in overkill, and please take that with a grain of common sense. At close range, say inside of 30 yards, even the factory 200 grain .35 will ruin a LOT of meat, and will go clean through a 250 pound hog at the shoulder. BB's heavy .35 Rem has nearly twice the recoil as one receives from the tried and true Core-locts. In fact while using the 220gr. .35 and the 320 grain cast .45 Colt BufBore heavies on seperate hunts, I've shot through two hogs at once, and if there had been third one hiding behind the first two, I'm quite sure it would have been more meat in the freezer None of the deer or hogs I've shot with my Marlin .44 got more than a few steps either. One thing to consider, along with your effective shooting distance, is just how much you like the action of a levergun carbine cycling pistol rounds as opposed to a longer barreled (normally) gun running much longer rifle rounds through it. If it was heavy brush that I'd be hunting in, with almost no option for shots over 75 yards, I'm gonna go with my 1894 action carbine. If it's deer sized game and up, I'm taking a rifle cartridge loaded appropriately. It's not really a (this vs. that), it more of what's going to work best for you in the conditions that you hunt.
My .02, your results may vary!
Yes I have shot Tim's buffalbore ammo and it is certainly the heaviest loads I have shot. This is ammo to use on big dangerous game. In fact his heaviest +p+ load for the 44 has started to crack my kingwood grips for my super redhawk. These pressures are very high.

I think some of corbons loads would be more practical for lighter game like deer. Or if you want to tackle some wild pig...double tap makes a great bullet for this. Keep in mind these chronoes are out of a pistol, I shoot this out of a rifle. I get better accuracy, better range, more bullets, and more power.

Excellent hardcast deer and elk load for all .44 Magnums! A 250gr wide flat nose LBT-style bullet at REAL .44 Magnum velocities. This cartridge uses standard pressure and an overall length of only 1.56". You can use it in any .44 Magnum that is in good condition! This powerful loading comes in boxes of 50!

Caliber : .44 Magnum

Bullet : 250gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Beartooth

Ballistics : 1500fps - 1250 ft./lbs. - 6.5" bbl.

I would not feel undergunned using this against anything aside from bear.
 

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"Years ago, we lived in northern California and I hunted blacktails in Napa and Sonoma Counties. Mostly I hunted with a Marlin 1894 in 44 MAG and Williams peep site. These coastal deer rarely exceed 125 pounds live weight. My shots averaged about 75 yards as I hunted from well concealed blinds.

For no other reason than best accurasy, I hunted with Hornady 200 grain hollow tip bullets. Killing power was quite impressive. Sometimes the deer would topple over where it stood. Other occaisions it would bound away only to drop after a few jumps. The bullets were always recovered and typically measured about 3/4 inch in diameter."


Interesting. We hunted blacktails in Alaska for about thirty years. I used a 44mag hand gun with 320gr hard cast for a lot of venison, and my son used a M1894 with factory 240gr sjsp. We never recovered bullets. We rarely had a deer not die on the spot. We rarely ever had to track deer, and more often than not they were dead before they collapsed. We never used hollowpoints on game and to this day won't use them for anything but vermin.

Different philosophy I suppose. I personally prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets moving at moderate velocities. I have seen so many deer die that I don't have any doubts about harvesting them with this setup.

But I think the .35Rem is a fine option. I have one. I have never taken game with it though, so there is a question in my mind about it. I hope to find a few hogs to help me resolve this question next month.

Between the two guns mentioned, the 94 is handier and quicker, the 336 has a range advantage, but I would put the break point somewhere around 125 yards. At that range, a 260-320gr bullet still has plenty of momentum to ventilate venison.

Grizz
 
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Griz said:
"Years ago, we lived in northern California and I hunted blacktails in Napa and Sonoma Counties. Mostly I hunted with a Marlin 1894 in 44 MAG and Williams peep site. These coastal deer rarely exceed 125 pounds live weight. My shots averaged about 75 yards as I hunted from well concealed blinds.

For no other reason than best accurasy, I hunted with Hornady 200 grain hollow tip bullets. Killing power was quite impressive. Sometimes the deer would topple over where it stood. Other occaisions it would bound away only to drop after a few jumps. The bullets were always recovered and typically measured about 3/4 inch in diameter."


Interesting. We hunted blacktails in Alaska for about thirty years. I used a 44mag hand gun with 320gr hard cast for a lot of venison, and my son used a M1894 with factory 240gr sjsp. We never recovered bullets. We rarely had a deer not die on the spot. We rarely ever had to track deer, and more often than not they were dead before they collapsed. We never used hollowpoints on game and to this day won't use them for anything but vermin.

Different philosophy I suppose. I personally prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets moving at moderate velocities. I have seen so many deer die that I don't have any doubts about harvesting them with this setup.

But I think the .35Rem is a fine option. I have one. I have never taken game with it though, so there is a question in my mind about it. I hope to find a few hogs to help me resolve this question next month.

Between the two guns mentioned, the 94 is handier and quicker, the 336 has a range advantage, but I would put the break point somewhere around 125 yards. At that range, a 260-320gr bullet still has plenty of momentum to ventilate venison.

Grizz
Grizz is right on the money with the 125 yard marker. Here is the ballistic info for all of corbon's 44 mag loads shot out of a standard length revolver. I'd love to see the the same ballistic table based on a 20 in barrel.

44 Magnum 180gr Jacketed Hollow Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1700 1480 1293 1214 1147 1091 1044 fps
Energy 1155 875.8 668.0 589.1 525.6 475.5 436.1 ft/lb
Path -0.50 1.74 0.00 -2.74 -6.96 -12.84 -20.52 in

44 Magnum 240gr Jacketed Hollow Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1500 1354 1229 1175 1129 1089 1054 fps
Energy 1200 977.1 805.1 736.9 679.6 631.7 591.6 ft/lb
Path -0.50 2.13 0.00 -3.16 -7.88 -14.31 -22.55 in

44 Magnum 260gr Bonded-Core Hollow Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1450 1319 1208 1161 1119 1082 1050 fps
Energy 1214 1005 843.1 778.2 723.1 676.6 637.2 ft/lb
Path -0.50 2.25 0.00 -3.29 -8.20 -14.83 -23.31 in

44 Magnum 280gr Bonded-Core Soft Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1400 1289 1194 1153 1116 1084 1055 fps
Energy 1219 1033 886.5 826.7 775.1 730.7 692.4 ft/lb
Path -0.50 2.37 0.00 -3.41 -8.46 -15.24 -23.87 in

44 Magnum 300gr Jacketed Soft Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1300 1206 1128 1095 1066 1040 1016 fps
Energy 1126 968.8 847.9 799.3 757.2 720.6 688.2 ft/lb
Path -0.50 2.74 0.00 -3.87 -9.55 -17.14 -26.71 in

44 Magnum 305gr Flat Point Penetrator
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1300 1209 1133 1100 1072 1046 1022 fps
Energy 1145 989.7 869.2 820.4 778.0 740.9 708.1 ft/lb
Path -0.50 2.72 0.00 -3.85 -9.48 -17.01 -26.50 in

44 Magnum 320gr Hard-Cast Flat Point
Range 0 50 100 125 150 175 200 yards
Velocity 1270 1146 1055 1020 989 961 936 fps
Energy 1146 933.1 791.2 738.8 694.6 656.3 622.7 ft/lb
Path -0.50 3.05 0.00 -4.37 -10.81 -19.44 -3038 in

I bet that 180 grain HP would be prefectly suited to small deer....low on recoil...and less drop at 100 yards than any other load listed.
 

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I’m not going to rely on numbers, just hunting experience. I have taken over 100 hogs in Texas, most with a 44 mag Ruger handgun. I shot others with my 1894 trapper model and my Marlin. The 44 mag get the job done for me and I like reloading this round. Hogs I have shot usually were tracked by dogs and shot close up and angry. I have been charged several times and it is more nerve and a steady hand to put them away,

On deer, I have taken shots out to about 40 yards with my revolver and a few at close to 100 yards with the rifle. For longer shots on deer, I have dome well with my 308.
 

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And who says the .44 Mag is not a long range caliber? Elmer Keith claims to have killed deer in excess of 600 yards! That with a 44 Mag pistol ! So how can you say that isn't long range?

Why do you have a fixation on penatration? If the bullet goes completely through the animal then of what use is more penetration?

A 44 Mag will out penetrate a 30-06? I dont think so! You are comparing 44 solids with '06 expanding bullets. Now let compare with both shooting solids and see what happens. No 44 cal currently made can equal a 30 cal AP in penetration.

Now, back to the subject at hand. If either cartridge will take the game in question, and they will, then use the one you have or like best.


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