You make for a good arguement. Bullet size/wound characteristics/penetration at various speeds could carry a conversation on all day!M1Garand said:I believe the 35 Rem to be superior at all ranges. What we have to keep in mind is that 44 mag is a handgun round while the 35 Rem is a rifle round. And while most deer may be taken at less than 100 yards, there are times where the opportunity is a little further.
Checking around, it seems that a 44 mag with a 280 grain @ 1600 fps is a fairly hot load and I'm not so sure it can be pushed that fast. In load swap, the fastest listed is 1500 fps. Comparing the original rounds Tony addressed I crunched some numbers in my ballistics software and came up with:
35 Rem (Federals Hi-Shok)
Muzzle - 2080 fps, 1921 fpe
100 yards - 1700 fps, 1278 fpe
200 yards - 1380 fps, 838 fpe
Muzzle - 1600 fps, 1591 fpe
100 yards - 1309 fps, 1065 fpe
200 yards - 1104 fps, 757 fpe
Crunching in the load in load swap for the 44 mag I get:
Muzzle - 1500 fps, 1398 fpe
100 yards - 1233 fps, 945 fpe
200 yards - 1059 fps, 697 fpe
And throwing in Buffalo Bores 35 Rem 220 grn load:
Muzzle - 2200 fps, 2364 fpe
100 yards - 1936 fps, 1831 fpe
200 yards - 1693 fps, 1401 fpe
While the larger bore in the 44 mag does stand for something, a nicely mushroomed 35 caliber bullet almost an inch in diameter is nothing to sneeze at and it will leave a nice wound channel. The 44 mag is not a 444 marlin and cannot push a 280 grain bullet fast enough for superiority over the 35 Rem. The advantage is in the 35 Rem at all ranges....
M1Garand said:35 Remington...buffalo bore also makes a 220 grn flat point @ 2200 fps.
Yes I have shot Tim's buffalbore ammo and it is certainly the heaviest loads I have shot. This is ammo to use on big dangerous game. In fact his heaviest +p+ load for the 44 has started to crack my kingwood grips for my super redhawk. These pressures are very high.SFT said:After using the .35, .44 mag. & special, as well as .45 Colt Buffalo Bore offerings on hogs and deer, I can say for sure that any one of them will take game with authority, even bordering in overkill, and please take that with a grain of common sense. At close range, say inside of 30 yards, even the factory 200 grain .35 will ruin a LOT of meat, and will go clean through a 250 pound hog at the shoulder. BB's heavy .35 Rem has nearly twice the recoil as one receives from the tried and true Core-locts. In fact while using the 220gr. .35 and the 320 grain cast .45 Colt BufBore heavies on seperate hunts, I've shot through two hogs at once, and if there had been third one hiding behind the first two, I'm quite sure it would have been more meat in the freezer None of the deer or hogs I've shot with my Marlin .44 got more than a few steps either. One thing to consider, along with your effective shooting distance, is just how much you like the action of a levergun carbine cycling pistol rounds as opposed to a longer barreled (normally) gun running much longer rifle rounds through it. If it was heavy brush that I'd be hunting in, with almost no option for shots over 75 yards, I'm gonna go with my 1894 action carbine. If it's deer sized game and up, I'm taking a rifle cartridge loaded appropriately. It's not really a (this vs. that), it more of what's going to work best for you in the conditions that you hunt.
My .02, your results may vary!
Grizz is right on the money with the 125 yard marker. Here is the ballistic info for all of corbon's 44 mag loads shot out of a standard length revolver. I'd love to see the the same ballistic table based on a 20 in barrel.Griz said:"Years ago, we lived in northern California and I hunted blacktails in Napa and Sonoma Counties. Mostly I hunted with a Marlin 1894 in 44 MAG and Williams peep site. These coastal deer rarely exceed 125 pounds live weight. My shots averaged about 75 yards as I hunted from well concealed blinds.
For no other reason than best accurasy, I hunted with Hornady 200 grain hollow tip bullets. Killing power was quite impressive. Sometimes the deer would topple over where it stood. Other occaisions it would bound away only to drop after a few jumps. The bullets were always recovered and typically measured about 3/4 inch in diameter."
Interesting. We hunted blacktails in Alaska for about thirty years. I used a 44mag hand gun with 320gr hard cast for a lot of venison, and my son used a M1894 with factory 240gr sjsp. We never recovered bullets. We rarely had a deer not die on the spot. We rarely ever had to track deer, and more often than not they were dead before they collapsed. We never used hollowpoints on game and to this day won't use them for anything but vermin.
Different philosophy I suppose. I personally prefer heavy-for-caliber bullets moving at moderate velocities. I have seen so many deer die that I don't have any doubts about harvesting them with this setup.
But I think the .35Rem is a fine option. I have one. I have never taken game with it though, so there is a question in my mind about it. I hope to find a few hogs to help me resolve this question next month.
Between the two guns mentioned, the 94 is handier and quicker, the 336 has a range advantage, but I would put the break point somewhere around 125 yards. At that range, a 260-320gr bullet still has plenty of momentum to ventilate venison.